THE Lucas thread

[Assassin]

I have to keep wondering

I'm not sure if Rafa picks based on form though. If he did, then there wouldnt be an issue with players playing well and then being dropped the next game, regardless of how they'd done. That's something that is often seen as a hallmark of Rafa's selection policy, something which Gerrard and Carragher's books also mention.

As for Burnley, we didnt miss Mascher no, because his role is designed to neutralise opposition threat and frankly, Burnley offered none.

I'm not sure how you can pick Lucas as MOM, that's harsh on Benayoun somewhat.

What are the tackling stats for Lucas and Mascher? I'm not disputing the 'fact' you mentioned, i'd just be interested in the numbers if you have them to hand?

From Opta Lucas is actually 3rd best in the PL

Tacklers Team Tackles Success rate
Thomas Wigan 29 83%
Belhadj Portsmouth 27 70%
Lucas Liverpool 24 71%
Fletcher Man Utd 20 80%
Assou-Ekotto Tottenham 19 74%

I agree with you about Yossi being MOM, but if he hadnt have scored a hat trick Lucas would have pushed him really hard for the honour

[Craig_H]

Three separate but related points:

Lucas didn't really play as a second deep defensive midfielder against Villa but was obviously more advanced. This admittedly created it's own problems as Villa counter attacked with relative ease.

The way I see a 4-2-3-1 is that if you have the opportunity to attack people it gives you the maximim flexibility of which players you use to attack. The two CMs can cover either fullbacks over lapping both side or a Cb carrying the ball forward. They also have the potential to attack or at least progress the ball themselves. The problem for me has been that we have not got the balance right about who attacks and who covers - too often we have had both fullbacks attacking and no out balls. Last season I feel we had a great balance of players for this in many ways but lacked really attacking fullbacks. The loss of Alonso and addition of more progressive fullbacks has altered the balance needed in midfield as we need more play making from the three behind Torres and the fullbacks require more cover.
I think we should see whether we can improve the link between defense and attack in the 4-2-3-1 as I feel we can be just as effective now as we were in the latter stages of last season but we need people to adapt.

I think the Burnley game gave a false sense of how well Gerrard would do deeper in midfield against the lesser teams as they basically ceded the battle but still tried to play football - allowing Gerrard to play as much as he liked high up the pitch and us to advance the backline to compensate. Against teams who 'park the bus' that will be less easy. It is however good to have more than one option.

I don't see that we really altered formation for the Burnley match by the way - I just think that 4-2-3-1 is flexible as a game plan and to some degree that a set of numbers is an inadequate way to describe a tactical plan.

Really good post

I concede that perhaps my interpretation of a 442 system against Burnley saw it as being more rigid than it perhaps was.

Going back to the 4231 system, and this has been touched upon, but the most obvious problem was that we were using it exactly as last season, but with Lucas 'being' Alonso - and he cant be. As you rightly say, people have to adapt to this difference.

[RedReet]

How have i bumped an older thread? All i'm doing is replying to specific posts aimed at me, so it's hardly me that's 'going on about it'.

I was talking about the person who did bump the thread (Flyboy) whom I presumed you were defending by saying he’s doesn’t have to justify why he doesn’t like/rate Lucas.

I see he’s added to his fine post collection again.

[dww]

From Opta Lucas is actually 3rd best in the PL

Tacklers Team Tackles Success rate
Thomas Wigan 29 83%
Belhadj Portsmouth 27 70%
Lucas Liverpool 24 71%
Fletcher Man Utd 20 80%
Assou-Ekotto Tottenham 19 74%

I agree with you about Yossi being MOM, but if he hadnt have scored a hat trick Lucas would have pushed him really hard for the honour

You just have to look at the list though to see that there is an element of the small sample size to those results. I actually think that paticularly against a team like Burnley a better/quicker passer like Lucas might be a better option than Mascherano even if he might be a less able destructive player.

It always surprises me that people feel we should attack these teams more and don't even consider that it might be an option to compromise somewhat on the defensive qualities of the most deep lying midfielder.

[MrMichael]

I was talking about the person who did bump the thread (Flyboy) whom I presumed you were defending by saying he’s doesn’t have to justify why he doesn’t like/rate Lucas.

I see he’s added to his fine post collection again.

I think I've found out what Flyboy's problem is. Its because he can't justify bashing Kuyt anymore, needs a new target...

kuyt isnt good enough for even derby county...what a waste

kuyt's just bloody embarassing

kuyts' the worse player on the pitch ,thats taking into account all 22 men and yet he is unbelievably still playing

**** off kuyt...just **** off

rafas defending kuyt with the same workload horse****. i'm convinced kuyts got some dirt on the boss

out of curiosity..how much is kuyt worth now? i reckon 3 million or is that too much ?

why isnt babel on the bench instead of dirk krap.

think kuyt takes out rafa's trash....everyday

kuyt to fly???FFS he can't even run

van basten drops kuyt for friendly against croatia. even he sees the rubbish in kuyt now

the difference is kuyt is consistent....consistently ****e both for club and country!!!why am i even justifying.. end of

when a manager has his favourites we'll just have to tolerate it.dirk kuyt probably wouldnt be able to score in a whore house but he'll always be there in rafa's first 11.i've pratically given up...

should signal the end of kuyt then. i seriously hope so

[RedReet]

I think I've found out what Flyboy's problem is. Its because he can't justify bashing Kuyt anymore, needs a new target...

I'd be willing to bet that he's aslo posted that Rafa should be playing Babel and that he's never been given a chance.

[flyboy]

Oh seriously though, you're just wumming now, how about actually engaging with some of the more constructive discussion in the thread instead? You're just reading what you want into that rather than what he's actually said.

He was selected in the position Alonso vacated for the first few games. Most of our fans who lamented Xabi's passing and slag Lucas off are comparing the two (ie that Lucas is nowhere near as good). Its obvious and inevitable, and what he said was probably in response to a question from a journo specifically about that. He quite flagrantly doesn't mean he's filling Xabi's shoes, and even says so himself.

Get a grip

fair enough interviews can some time be twisted in reports but ffs i rather him shut up and try to be a decent footballer.a simple no comment for now or when he is still **** would do.

[RedReet]

fair enough interviews can some time be twisted in reports but ffs i rather him shut up and try to be a decent footballer.a simple no comment for now or when he is still **** would do.

Ironic don't you think?

[wildman]

[QUOTE=Assassin;1421982]

Everbody is assuming the Aquilani will be replacing Lucas in the side, I dont think it is a clear cut as that

correc tpeople really need to get off the guys back Rafas the manager not any of you guys on his back and he is his chioce, he really isnt as bad as half the people on here make him out to be, your not doing the guy or the team any good by being like this

[flyboy]

since you have made it personal now mr michael. why dont you run to your momma and tell her about me.

[-V-]

since you have made it personal now mr michael. why dont you run to your momma and tell her about me.

Goodbye, was nice knowing you

[Guest]

flyboy
On Holiday

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 355

[dww]

I think I've found out what Flyboy's problem is. Its because he can't justify bashing Kuyt anymore, needs a new target...

To generalise the point (and refer back to an earlier part of the discussion) I do wonder If there is a correlation between the posters who didn't rate Kuyt and Lucas (and the same for those who defend them).

[RedReet]

Goodbye, was nice knowing you

Oi, you should shoulder some of the blame for calling all lurkers out. Now look what you've started.

Sin Bin for V also.

[Assassin]

To generalise the point (and refer back to an earlier part of the discussion) I do wonder If there is a correlation between the posters who didn't rate Kuyt and Lucas (and the same fro those who defend them).

I have defended both Kuyt and Lucas