SOS action at Debrecen game

[Daniel mote]

I admire their passion and effort, and of course fully back the intention.

I just cant honestly see their objectives as being anywhere near realistic.

Fair enough!

[zimbo]

I don't get where some people are going with their arguments. The general feeling I get from other fans is that they want the Yanks out but don't want to do anything towards making that a reality. Why?

Of course the sensible answer is outlined by Craig above, in that actions we are legally allowed to take would have little to no effect. At this stage I would say anything SOS have done has done nothing what so ever to damage the reputation of the club. Rival fans may laugh, but only at the situation we find ourselves in. I take a look around at the state some of the once proud footballing hot beds and you can guarantee that a large majority of fans from clubs in such decline wish they could have done something to stop the rot.

We are in a unique situation where our mamager and local media highlighted the problems within at a very early stage. Such is the grandness of Liverpool Football Club that we are always going to be a big media story and whilst the mud slinging has been embarrassing at times it has continued to show that our club is nothing more than a house of cards waiting for a gust of wind to blow it into complete chaos.

Whilst it would be nice to just pull the bed covers over our heads and pretend everything is fine this is not going to happen. LFC is a massive club that should make money hand over fist. It is not one that should be struggling to make interest repayments.

I don't know what difference SOS will make, more than likely none. But as long as things stay onside I fail to see what bad can come from them. They are in it for the right reasons IMO and doing their best in what is a likely impossible situation. Hicks and Gillet work very much on PR and a group not allowing them to have that is surely a step in the right direction.

Spot on.

[PTP]

I was also shocked and appalled by behaviour at the Xmas party. But that has nothing to do with the action they have taken that some people are saying is embarrassing.

I am asking what action have they taken that has been embarrassing?

it has though! - again it might just be my opinion, but that one incident went a long way to undermining any good they might do/achieve!

ie - for example, lets say that SOS somehow come up with £500m, and buy the club!

Other clubs fans will use that incident as a stick to beat us with saying things like "typical scousers, owned by a gang of hooligans"

Moving away from the xmas party thingy cause i covered that to death at the time - as i say it's just my whole opinion. - It's not just SOS, it's things like RKT (whatver happend to them btw?) - to me personally, it comes a across as elitist, wannabe super fans distinguishing themselves from your everyday fan with a kinda if you are not one of us, you are not a proper liverpool fan attitude.....and thats what puts me off them - i'm not saying thats why they are set up, and i appreciate those involved only have the best interests at heart but that is the message i personally see, and my reaction is always a "hang on, i'll support my club anyway i choose" - does that make sense or am i rambling?

[DannyMan2006]

It's a whole package though, as an organisation, they're conducted themselves in an embarrassing manner, and those things make people reluctant to want to be associated with them.

Furthermore, their 'we speak for all LFC fans' attitude isnt helpful.

Craig, I accept what was done at the Xmas party was a disgrace. But people were spouting the same stuff before they did that. Whoever acted in such a way let the organization down and it's good to see they have since condemed the behaviour.

If people were to turn round and say they will not support SOS because of that incident then fair enough. But it seems people want to mumble through something without saying why they are an embarrassment. Because as I said people were saying the same stuff before the singing.

[DannyMan2006]

So it'd be what, 5 or 6 years?

Maybe ten, meybe less, maybe more. It matters very little really. All that matters is they make the maximum profit.

[PTP]

i think me and craig ( i can't believe this ) are on the same wavelength here.

[DannyMan2006]

it has though! - again it might just be my opinion, but that one incident went a long way to undermining any good they might do/achieve!

ie - for example, lets say that SOS somehow come up with £500m, and buy the club!

Other clubs fans will use that incident as a stick to beat us with saying things like "typical scousers, owned by a gang of hooligans"

Moving away from the xmas party thingy cause i covered that to death at the time - as i say it's just my whole opinion. - It's not just SOS, it's things like RKT (whatver happend to them btw?) - to me personally, it comes a across as elitist, wannabe super fans distinguishing themselves from your everyday fan with a kinda if you are not one of us, you are not a proper liverpool fan attitude.....and thats what puts me off them - i'm not saying thats why they are set up, and i appreciate those involved only have the best interests at heart but that is the message i personally see, and my reaction is always a "hang on, i'll support my club anyway i choose" - does that make sense or am i rambling?

You make sense, but I disagree with your opinions. It seems you appear more concerned with what rival fans think about us than anything else. I can tell you now that rival fans laugh at us because we are is such a precarious financial state. And that will not change no matter what is done by our fans.

And I saw nothing wrong with Reclaim the Kop. They did not want to keep day trippers away from Anfield. They simply said that if you are going to go in the Kop then gives its reputation some justice and sing along! It is common knowledge that fans can act as the 12th man in the hour of need and for too long now Anfield has remained silent. The club and players need the Kop and whilst you have the right to pay hard earned cash and sit silent, as a Liverpool fan I challenge that individual and say that if you buy a seat in the Kop you have a responsibility towards the club you love to back them vocally.

If you don't want to sing, why not sit elsewhere and just enjoy the atmospehere that way? If that view is something you disagree with then fair enough.

[zimbo]

but imo SOS have come across as an almost militant active group having protests, marches, parading their banner etc, that whilst they may have the right interests at heart, but in reality in my opinion it comes across in totally the wrong way - ie fans of other clubs will be pissing themselves laughing. Similar to how liverpool fans mocked United when they first got took over by the glaziers and their fans were going nuts.

Other clubs fans will use that incident as a stick to beat us with saying things like "typical scousers, owned by a gang of hooligans"

But why are you so bothered by what fans of other clubs think? I really couldn't give a flying one what some United or Everton fan thinks. It's totally irrelevant to me.

Anyway, I'd imagine that they're able to find all the amusement they want from our club's financial predicament, irrespective of anything that SOS do.

Edit:....point already made by DannyMan above.

[DannyMan2006]

But why are you so bothered by what fans of other clubs think? I really couldn't give a flying one what some United or Everton fan thinks. It's totally irrelevant to me.

Anyway, I'd imagine that they're able to find all the amusement they want from our club's financial predicament, irrespective of anything that SOS do.

Edit:....point already made by DannyMan above.

[PTP]

You make sense, but I disagree with your opinions. It seems you appear more concerned with what rival fans think about us than anything else. I can tell you now that rival fans laugh at us because we are is such a precarious financial state. And that will not change no matter what is done by our fans.

And I saw nothing wrong with Reclaim the Kop. They did not want to keep day trippers away from Anfield. They simply said that if you are going to go in the Kop then gives its reputation some justice and sing along! It is common knowledge that fans can act as the 12th man in the hour of need and for too long now Anfield has remained silent. The club and players need the Kop and whilst you have the right to pay hard earned cash and sit silent, as a Liverpool fan I challenge that individual and say that if you buy a seat in the Kop you have a responsibility towards the club you love to back them vocally.

If you don't want to sing, why not sit elsewhere and just enjoy the atmospehere that way? If that view is something you disagree with then fair enough.

Don't get me wrong - again RKT as I said with SOS, had the right interests at heart, but imo alienated people with the way they handled things cause to me personally it came across as an elitist group of wannabe superfans. Maybe thats a bit ott/harsh critiscism - but at the time thats what I thought. With regards to my concerns, well obv my priority is liverpool football club, and rival fans shouldn't bother us but that doesn't mean we should just ignore them - Having rivals is what makes football such a great game

For the record, i prob only miss a handful of home games each season, and find myself sitting all over the ground as I just take whatever ticket i can get hold off. Imo it's not just down to the daytrippers that anfield has it's quiet days, but also the many many local season ticket holders who seem to have a "i go every game and take it for granted attitude" and just seem to sit through the game like it's a chore. - When it started, RTK came across as Scousers only in the Kop, which i thought was wrong as i have seen thousands of scousers sit in silent in all parts of the ground.

this is just a personal thing - part of me can see what these groups are trying to achieve, but for me they just leave something in my mind doubting them, just a a sour taste. I can't really put it in to words.

[DannyMan2006]

Don't get me wrong - again RKT as I said with SOS, had the right interests at heart, but imo alienated people with the way they handled things cause to me personally it came across as an elitist group of wannabe superfans. Maybe thats a bit ott/harsh critiscism - but at the time thats what I thought. With regards to my concerns, well obv my priority is liverpool football club, and rival fans shouldn't bother us but that doesn't mean we should just ignore them - Having rivals is what makes football such a great game

For the record, i prob only miss a handful of home games each season, and find myself sitting all over the ground as I just take whatever ticket i can get hold off. Imo it's not just down to the daytrippers that anfield has it's quiet days, but also the many many local season ticket holders who seem to have a "i go every game and take it for granted attitude" and just seem to sit through the game like it's a chore. - When it started, RTK came across as Scousers only in the Kop, which i thought was wrong as i have seen thousands of scousers sit in silent in all parts of the ground.

this is just a personal thing - part of me can see what these groups are trying to achieve, but for me they just leave something in my mind doubting them, just a a sour taste. I can't really put it in to words.

Like I said before, I can see where you are coming from. The RTK was as far as I was aware aimed at getting people to sing more, regardless of who they were. If you are telling me that their views were that ST holders sing and day trippers don't - well that is obviously wrong. But I personally don't remember reading that. Maybe their campaign was more aimed towards day trippers, but that is obviously where they thought they may have the biggest impact.

I take your view on elitist fans, but neither is a select group. Anyone can apply to join the SOS and there web page has it strew all over the place that they welcome ideas from other people and only ask that you E-Mail. For me, an elite group would be one who refuses membership to certain persons based on not meeting a certain criteria.

[PTP]

But why are you so bothered by what fans of other clubs think? I really couldn't give a flying one what some United or Everton fan thinks. It's totally irrelevant to me.

Anyway, I'd imagine that they're able to find all the amusement they want from our club's financial predicament, irrespective of anything that SOS do.

Edit:....point already made by DannyMan above.

arrrrgggghh - i'd typed out a lengthy reply, and some idiot in our work is ****ign round with our server and internet crashed! i haven't the energy to type it again

anyway the jist of it was - whilst obv Lfc is our priority and first concern, i disagree with people saying “i don’t care what other fans/media think, i only care about lfc”

Well firstly – bollocks – How can you not be interested in what other fans think! – I love Liverpool with all my heart, and I want us to be the best and most respected club in the land and if i see or hear other people taking the piss, or slagging us off for whatever reason it hurts and i jump in to defend the club – and anything that i feel could undermine Liverpool football club always concerns me because of this.

Secondly! – If every single football fan, didn’t care about rivalry or whatever other fans think, well what would be the point, the game would lose a huge amount of emotion, rival fans, the banter, the arguements/debates etc is part of what makes this game so great and what gives us such good atmosphere. Take it away and well, it’s would be a bit flat and boring.

[PTP]

Like I said before, I can see where you are coming from. The RTK was as far as I was aware aimed at getting people to sing more, regardless of who they were. If you are telling me that their views were that ST holders sing and day trippers don't - well that is obviously wrong. But I personally don't remember reading that. Maybe their campaign was more aimed towards day trippers, but that is obviously where they thought they may have the biggest impact.

I take your view on elitist fans, but neither is a select group. Anyone can apply to join the SOS and there web page has it strew all over the place that they welcome ideas from other people and only ask that you E-Mail. For me, an elite group would be one who refuses membership to certain persons based on not meeting a certain criteria.

Dannyman, you are easily this sites most postive poster - maybe i should give these groups a bit more benefit of the doubt instead of jumping to my conlcusion. - I think another way i see it that prob makes more sense to me the more i think of it, and isn't so much aimed at the groups themselves or what they stand for - but more the people lower down the chain if you like. ie the people who join these groups without really knowing what they are because they kinda follow the pack and have a an "i'm a member of [insert random name] and your not so therefore i am a better fan than you" attritude - this is the type of fan that would have been involved at the SOS xmas party - so it's prob more a problem i have with our small section of mindless fans as opposed to the real reason these groups are set up and what they do - and my concern is that these mindless fans kinda latch on to these groups to use it as vechicle to show they are true supporters! hahaha i think have gone round in complete circles

cheers dannyman - you have helped me realise what my problem is

[DannyMan2006]

arrrrgggghh - i'd typed out a lengthy reply, and some idiot in our work is ****ign round with our server and internet crashed! i haven't the energy to type it again

anyway the jist of it was - whilst obv Lfc is our priority and first concern, i disagree with people saying “i don’t care what other fans/media think, i only care about lfc”

Well firstly – bollocks – How can you not be interested in what other fans think! – I love Liverpool with all my heart, and I want us to be the best and most respected club in the land and if i see or hear other people taking the piss, or slagging us off for whatever reason it hurts and i jump in to defend the club – and anything that i feel could undermine Liverpool football club always concerns me because of this.

Secondly! – If every single football fan, didn’t care about rivalry or whatever other fans think, well what would be the point, the game would lose a huge amount of emotion, rival fans, the banter, the arguements/debates etc is part of what makes this game so great and what gives us such good atmosphere. Take it away and well, it’s would be a bit flat and boring.

PTP - I think a strong part of our argument is that we are already a laughing stock and the butt of many jokes because of the financial state. Taking the brunt of any extra criticism from the actions of SOS would surely be acceptable to all if their actions prevented us from heading further into the doldrums.

No one likes getting stick, but sometimes the bigger picture must be looked at. Todays news is tomorrows fish and chips paper, so if and when the Yanks do sell up everyone will move onto something else and find a new way to have a go at us. There is always ammunition in some form.

[Scratch]

PTP - I think a strong part of our argument is that we are already a laughing stock and the butt of many jokes because of the financial state. Taking the brunt of any extra criticism from the actions of SOS would surely be acceptable to all if their actions prevented us from heading further into the doldrums.

No one likes getting stick, but sometimes the bigger picture must be looked at. Todays news is tomorrows fish and chips paper, so if and when the Yanks do sell up everyone will move onto something else and find a new way to have a go at us. There is always ammunition in some form.

I must live in a nice part of Manchester then, cos no one ever comments on that part of our club...yes, i get Fat Spanish Waiter, and the inevitable jibes when we lose, but the yanks never get a mention...where are we a laughing stock?