Should Rafa be replaced by Guus Hiddink?

[red g]

I'd take Roy Hodgson.

[Baracus]

No ****in way. If anybody it should be Capello after the world cup

Rafael Benitez is Capello in everyway except form (body figure).

What is the difference in methods or tactics, man-management. Only trophies divide them

[gentingfrmhell]

We don't need to replace Rafa, we just need better players.

We need another striker, someone like Pandev who can play on the left and upfront when Torres is not playing.

We need someone to play on the right.

We need Aquilani to replace Lucas

We need A new leftback.

Benny, Kuyt, Riera, Lucas, Insua and Aurelio all need to be on the bench.

cant believe u actually listed all our problems in one post.

[Rix007]

Yes and quickly....

This is Rafa's team and he should take the blame solely for our elimination from the Champs League and League Cup. Also our running from the PL title.
Even without Torres/Gerrard we should have the backup players to fill in and compete effectively on the field.
We dont have those players and rely only on FT & SG mostly.

[Vermilion]

Nah, it's just one season. He'll/We'll bounce back, i have every confindence in that, bouncing back form Rafa going though, along with maybe some players, no, not much confidence in that, we're on the right track with this manager imo, happy to see other things at the club change though to make his job easier.

[The Birdman]

Utd finished bottom of their CL group a few years ago and everyone wanted SAF sacked, they've done ****e since then, terrible decision to stick with him, when does consistancy and continuity get you anywhere......................

[vonk]

Utd finished bottom of their CL group a few years ago and everyone wanted SAF sacked, they've done ****e since then, terrible decision to stick with him, when does consistancy and continuity get you anywhere......................

Hate to even inclinate towards praising the c**t, but surely people realise that slur is the exception to the rule in managerial terms. You can't argue that he creates teams that win.

Comparing Rafa to him every time is ridiculous. So it took him 5 years to win the league, so he once didn't make the Champions league. So therefore Rafa is more like him than the 50 other top-flight managers out there? Flawed logic.

[cream]

The owners will never sack Rafa, as long as we meet our financial targets, they will be happy. Winning things is nice, but not crucial, meeting financial targets is crucial.

[billd]

No!

[dww]

Hate to even inclinate towards praising the c**t, but surely people realise that slur is the exception to the rule in managerial terms. You can't argue that he creates teams that win.

Comparing Rafa to him every time is ridiculous. So it took him 5 years to win the league, so he once didn't make the Champions league. So therefore Rafa is more like him than the 50 other top-flight managers out there? Flawed logic.

It's not ridiculous you have to be careful and decide what you want to take from comparisons but surely we would want to look at the most successful sides in our league if we were to look for a blue print for future success?

The comparison with Fergusson is clearly double edged in that a/ he took a while to be really successful and b/ he rebuilt his club from the ground up which has helped him achieve long term success but on the other hand he has won the PL which Rafa has not and employs more obviouslly attacking tactics at times.

I'd content that in many ways Rafa is much more like Fergie than all but about 5 or 6 managers around the world. He has clear ideas of how the game should be played, has won some of the biggest trophies in club football and shown a keen interest in building more than just a first team at the club he is at.

[vonk]

It's not ridiculous you have to be careful and decide what you want to take from comparisons but surely we would want to look at the most successful sides in our league if we were to look for a blue print for future success?

The comparison with Fergusson is clearly double edged in that a/ he took a while to be really successful and b/ he rebuilt his club from the ground up which has helped him achieve long term success but on the other hand he has won the PL which Rafa has not and employs more obviouslly attacking tactics at times.

I'd content that in many ways Rafa is much more like Fergie than all but about 5 or 6 managers around the world. He has clear ideas of how the game should be played, has won some of the biggest trophies in club football and shown a keen interest in building more than just a first team at the club he is at.

...but you are quite conveniently comparing fergusons failures with Rafa's, without comparing the successes.

[dww]

Was I? I pointed out Fergie had won the PL. I'm notreally sure what you want. I pointed out the rebuilding that he did at United what successes am I missing out. I implicitly mention that Rafa hasn't won the PL. It's not as if Rafa hasn't won the CL or a domestic league. I even suggest the comparison is double edged - I can't help feeling that you are trying to misrepresent what I said in order that you don't have to address teh weak points in your own argument.

For me the relevant lessons to take from Fergie's career is that a top class manager can take a team from not being a major challenger to being one but it takes time and it isn't always a linear rise. I think in general those calling for Rafa's would have called for Fergusson's if they were United supporters back in the day. At the end of the day I guess the opposing points of view are unlikely to be reconciled as it at this stage both sides are more or less dug in.

[vonk]

dww, we'll agree to disagree. I take no solace in the comparison that it took ferguson five years to win a title so therefore it may take Rafa a similar amount of time. It's no less logical to compare Rafa with any other manager that has not won the title for five years.

Anyway, I like James Lawton as a football writer. Here's his take today. I'm neutral on what he says here, BTW. Sorry mods if I'm not suppose to post this.


James Lawton: Benitez forgets the values that made Reds great

His claim that Champions League elimination should be put in perspective disrespects the rich heritage Shankly established

Thursday, 26 November 2009



Rafael Benitez's team can shine with individual stardust but is shot through with mediocrity


Rafael Benitez's team can shine with individual stardust but is shot through with mediocrity

Liverpool's requirements as they face up to separation from the business end of a Champions League illuminated once more by the regained touch of Barcelona make a list that has grown dismayingly long.

However, there is no question about the No 1 need.

It is for a reality check in every corner of Anfield, starting in the offices of manager Rafa Benitez and chief executive Christian Purslow – and wherever the American owners are currently begging for the club's latest line of credit.
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Both Benitez and Purslow appear to be in deep denial as the rest of football absorbs the astonishing fact that the Liverpool decline has been so steep since last season's encouraging rush to the heels of Manchester United in the Premier League that their European campaign brought them one less goal than the tournament's weakest team, the Hungarian lightweights Debrecen who were beaten laboriously 1-0 in Budapest.

Benitez talked of a passing inconvenience, a setback which fans just need to put into a little perspective, saying, "It is worth remembering a lot of clubs don't make it into this competition. Because we have qualified for five years in a row, people think it's easy but it is not."

No, they don't think it's easy, Rafa, they think it tough and demanding. But if they happen to support Liverpool, or any club with a mighty tradition and huge following, they also think it is pretty much par for a well- travelled course.

This week they might also have reflected that if a manager is guaranteed the financial security of £20m if he should be fired, not one slight part of his job is to deliver a lecture against "the complacency" of fans who have been brought up to expect, if not crowning triumphs each season, at least the reassurance that their expensive team remains in the competitive mix at the very highest level – and is showing the odd hint of progress.

For the moment Benitez's bugle call for redoubled faith before Sunday's derby against an Everton who have cost only a fraction of his own team could scarcely sound thinner. Nor, talking of complacency, could Purslow have struck a more fanciful note if he had borrowed his script from Walt Disney. "Tonight, I'm delighted really in the positive signs. We should have won by a lot more. We've got players coming back from injury and it's really important the fans understand that we've got some heroes out there."

He assured Benitez of his future, pointing out that the manager was just four months into a five-year contract and that, "You don't deviate from long-term plans for people and the way to take the club forward to the next level because of two late goals against Lyons, and that is what it boils down to."

Unfortunately, it boils down to rather more than that. What has been rendered is increasingly oppressive evidence that after the improbable brilliance of his arrival at Anfield, Benitez has failed to develop a team of consistent, challenging standards. Take away the no-brainer signings of Fernando Torres and Javier Mascherano, the best defensive midfielder in the 2006 World Cup, the reliable goalkeeping of Pepe Reina and there is little or no accumulating evidence of a team on the move.

It is a team that can shine with individual stardust but is essentially shot through with mediocrity.

So when Purslow and Benitez say pull up a plate and tuck into the Europa League, and the former predicts a 50,000 legion marching to the final of that second-rate tournament – always assuming that Liverpool can muster a little more cutting edge than was displayed against the Hungarian non-qualifiers in Budapest – there can be only one reaction. It is that the men in the key positions are suffering from a bad case of amnesia. They seem to have forgotten quite who they represent.

It is not the loaded upstarts Manchester City, the upwardly mobile Aston Villa and Tottenham, the over-achieving Sunderland and Stoke City, it is Liverpool, the most successful team in English football history, the winner of five European Cups, and they are addressing a crowd who once inspired Bill Shankly to take out of his pocket a red handkerchief, wave it from the balcony of Liverpool City Hall and tell them, "You make me feel as strong as Chairman Mao."

What is missing now in the management of the club, if not in such downcast superstars as Steven Gerrard and Torres, is an understanding of the duty that if you are Liverpool you are indeed required to operate on a higher level than most of your opponents. It is not unfair, it is not too demanding, it is simply the terrain you occupy.

This is why, on a night when Barça reminded us of what it is to operate truly at the top of the game, to play winning football that is both coherent and beautiful, the noises made by those charged with guiding Liverpool were so painfully inappropriate.

What was needed more than anything was the acceptance that the club are continuing to slide away from the standards of performance which Benitez promised on that glorious dawn in Istanbul when he said he would build his own team of irresistible strength.

It has not happened in the time since then and there is no current evidence that it might in the next four and a half years. In such circumstances big-time clubs tend not to talk of long-term plans. They live in the present and if something is plainly broken they attempt to fix it.

[Kenneth]

Stock reponse here for such articles seems to be "**** off, what a load of ****e".

[dww]

I'm not really sure what anyone expects Rafa to say really. "It's a complete disaster I give up"? It's certainly not what any successful manager would do in his situation.

Purslow has only ever really talked about it in the context of is it enough to sack Rafa over to which he says no and will it cause financial meltdown at the club to which he also says no.

People obviously have the right to criticise under performance but I think that in the end we have to accept that it is the long term that is important. That doesn't mean that people have to agree with me that Rafa is the best option but the criteria for success I do think are best assessed at the end of the season - we have clearly had a bad patch as we tried to change the way we played with a thin squad and get over the loss of a key player from last season.

Rafa rightly takes flak for decisions like buying Aquilani - would a temporary solution have been better. Perhaps but the time to judge is at the end of the season if not further into the future. Most people have for a long time wanted us to fill out the squad with young players and go for quality in our buys when we do that people feel we left the squad too light in numbers.