Should Rafa be replaced by Guus Hiddink?

[the rev leeroy brown]

That's the price of the players, we never spent as much to 'pay' for them because we had to SELL first. Maths has never been your strongest suit is it? No offence, but this is basic stuff.

no offense taken. if ur too thick to get ur head round my arguement then so be it. it's basic stuff indeed.

[Guest]

And buying players each season involves a level of risk. Even buying Torres had an element of risk because even though he had undoubted talent, a player can still not adapt to his environment. What happened to Morientes? He was a world class player but never ever managed to cope with the demands of the English league. There have been players in the past not succeeding, not just at Liverpool. Veron was an expensive example, whilst he was a player of undoubted talent.

It's easy to distort facts when you have an agenda against someone, as is the case for you against Rafa. The journos are the same, it basically suits them to spill ****e as it sells papers to the most gullible of our fans, who lap it up and echo the same ****e in forums such as this.

[Kenneth]

Operation wasn't even a member on here when Torres joined so he wouldn't know whatever people on this forum were saying.

You chronology is a little dubious. He joined in July 2007.

BTW, that's after May 2007.

[Guest]

no offense taken. if ur too thick to get ur head round my arguement then so be it. it's basic stuff indeed.

Your argument is empty because it doesn't hold and it is the same argument used by journalists over and over and over again. Pure absolute bollocks.

[the rev leeroy brown]

Lets just say I´m very glad you are not making this dissicion. Witch one was the good year?

And about the players. The only players he has bought that where first choice where: Mascher, Pepe, Torres, Johnson and Aqilani. Do you really think if Rafa could have competed with the big clubs we would still be using players like, Kuyt, Benny, Riera, N´gog(bought as a young player for the future), Voronin, Degen to name just the ones that are still here.

last season finishing second was his good year.

i honestly beleive that no matter how much rafa has / had to spend he would still be playing kyut. as for benni, he SHOULD be playing every game. if rafa was allowed to compete he was gonna buy barry for the left wing?!?!? personally i think riera is a bteer wide player so in that instance i'm glad he wasn't allowed the big money buy.

[Guest]

You chronology is a little dubious. He joined in July 2007.

BTW, that's after May 2007.

But you were still a rookie on here, devoid of any opinions or faculty to interpret and analyse things.

My bad mate, thought he signed in 2006.

[Kenneth]

Yes there were.

And wanting to join us is a bit different from being the only club he wanted to join. But anything to discredit the manager eh?

Discredit the manager? WTF?

[the rev leeroy brown]

And buying players each season involves a level of risk. Even buying Torres had an element of risk because even though he had undoubted talent, a player can still not adapt to his environment. What happened to Morientes? He was a world class player but never ever managed to cope with the demands of the English league. There have been players in the past not succeeding, not just at Liverpool. Veron was an expensive example, whilst he was a player of undoubted talent.

It's easy to distort facts when you have an agenda against someone, as is the case for you against Rafa. The journos are the same, it basically suits them to spill ****e as it sells papers to the most gullible of our fans, who lap it up and echo the same ****e in forums such as this.

Your argument is empty because it doesn't hold and it is the same argument used by journalists over and over and over again. Pure absolute bollocks.

i am behind rafa for as long as he remains at the club. there is no agenda by me. the fact that i wouldnt mind seeing hiddink or dalglish or IMO the best choice mourinho take over from rafa doesn't take away the fact rafa is our manager and so i support him.

and the arguement is not empty its just that some people are so blinded by the RCNDW brigade that they fail to see that the journo's make a good point.

[Kenneth]

But you were still a rookie on here, devoid of any opinions or faculty to interpret and analyse things.

My bad mate, thought he signed in 2006.

But now.....

I was on SCM before here, so analysis wasn't required.

[einar]

last season finishing second was his good year.

i honestly beleive that no matter how much rafa has / had to spend he would still be playing kyut. as for benni, he SHOULD be playing every game. if rafa was allowed to compete he was gonna buy barry for the left wing?!?!? personally i think riera is a bteer wide player so in that instance i'm glad he wasn't allowed the big money buy.

The list: Villa, Silva(for the left wing), Aguero, Vidic, Evra, Simao, Walcott, Alves, Berbatov and so on.

You not liking Rafa is ok. Just make sure it is for the right reasons.

[Guest]

i am behind rafa for as long as he remains at the club. there is no agenda by me. the fact that i wouldnt mind seeing hiddink or dalglish or IMO the best choice mourinho take over from rafa doesn't take away the fact rafa is our manager and so i support him.

and the arguement is not empty its just that some people are so blinded by the RCNDW brigade that they fail to see that the journo's make a good point.

There's no RCDNW brigade, this is another myth purported by people who are frustrated to see that their argument is like thin air. Journo's know how to exploit any dissidence amongst supporters and exploit it, they also are members of these forums.

As for Dalglish as a choice to succeed Rafa, then I have to laugh out loud. He was a flop at Newcastle and he hasn't been on the circuit for god knows how long. Clutching at straws mate, clutching at straws.

Prepare yourself for a 'Long and Winding Road' as Rafa is here for another 4 years, want it or not.

[the rev leeroy brown]

The list: Villa, Silva(for the left wing), Aguero, Vidic, Evra, Simao, Walcott, Alves, Berbatov and so on.

You not liking Rafa is ok. Just make sure it is for the right reasons.

it's not that i have anything against rafa but for me all the rumours of us wanting to buy those players are just that....rumours.

[red g]

it's not that i have anything against rafa but for me all the rumours of us wanting to buy those players are just that....rumours.

simao was more than a rumour ......he was on the plane wasnt he?

[BFG]

why is everybody failing to see the reasonable argument that forgetting net spend gross spend he has spent a lot of money??? 45 mill spent on 4 players previously mentioned. he could have spent that money on better players but didn't . Thats my argument.he has spent a lot of money on ****e.

Because net spend is a crucial concept when looking into this.

For example you say £45mil when looking at our very worst buys (which again isn't a balanced or reasonable way of assessing things). In terms of net spend there's £11mil on Babel and we still have him and £7mil on Dossena and we still have him. Keane cost £21mil and was sold for £18mil so the net amount lost on him was £3mil. So right now we have £21mil out on those three, perhaps his worst buys and we'll probably get at least £10million back in when they're sold so a net loss of £11 million when you bother to apply the most basic maths to the analysis.

Another important thing to look at is the increasing value of players. Take the £20mil on Torres, £6mil on Reina, and £17mil on Mascherano. How much would those players fetch now if sold? Can you think of many in the Premier League that were bought for so much less than they're worth a couple of years later? No and that's a sign of a shrewd manager in the transfer market.

Net spend also means that for example we spent around £36 million on players last summer so ignoring net and gross you'd say his transfer budget was £36mil. The fact of the matter is he didn't have a transfer budget as all this money (and more) came from players that were sold. So no sales = no new signings and not being able to spot a player like Alonso at £10mil and sell him at £35mil means we have to sell a top player that doesn't want to leave to bring in vital additions or worst case scenario just to balance the books. Be careful what you wish for.

You seem to think that every player we buy should do well for us but that isn't the case with any manager at any club and never will be. Veron cost Fergie £28mil and they got £14mil back so there was more of a net loss in that one deal than in the three you've highlighted as being Rafa's worst. He hasn't spent a lot of money on ****e, he's done better than most and that's because he's a good manager.

[einar]

it's not that i have anything against rafa but for me all the rumours of us wanting to buy those players are just that....rumours.

You dont have anything against him, but you still want him sacked?

And you are also saying that Crouch, Bellamy, Momo, Gonzales, and a few others where Rafas first choice?