Hoofing and heading

[Parr_Zee]

Do you really think that's down to Rafa?

It's about confidence mate, ****ing confidence. Try to play football when you don't have any of it and you'll treat a ball like a hot potato. FFS.

Ha Ha. Yeah, cos Rafa has nothing to do with our tactics.

[Parr_Zee]

We played well first half. Then we got back into our shell and sat back, allowing them to put pressure on us. Rafa's football is all about conquering our opponent's half, playing pressing football, going for the jugular. You are wrong there.

Mate, your comment about us and Man Utd playing the same style of football and your comment here about Rafa's style as being "going for the jugular" has made me question your entire football knowledge. Rafa is the most cautious manager I have ever seen, and how you can describe him as "going for the jugular" is beyond me.

Yesterday, as soon as we got the goal I knew Rafa would tell the players to now be more cautious and be solid and compact. And i had a feeling that we would get out-played in the 2nd half as a result.

[Parr_Zee]

I hope it's the case, I sincerely hope mate. I have belief that Rafa will turn it around. He's not hiding and never has been. We should stick together and have a mentality where we believe that everything is conspiring at us. That's the only way. It's no good having fans turning against the manager.

But there also comes a time where we have to show that we are not content with mediocraty. We are Liverpool FC FFS - you seem far too happy with a situation in which we haven't won anything for around 3 years. Not even a measily Carling Cup.

[Guest]

Parr-zee, sorry to say this mate, but as you're criticising me for having a limited football knowledge I'll have to say that you're totally clueless at it. Rafa is a cautious manager? Well facts speaks against that as we've been the highest scorers last season.

And the way we play the game further proves that you're clueless. At our best we dominate teams, control games, puts teams under so much pressure that they normally can't get out of their own half.

How old are you? 18? 19?

[red g]

Parr-zee, sorry to say this mate, but as you're criticising me for having a limited football knowledge I'll have to say that you're totally clueless at it. Rafa is a cautious manager? Well facts speaks against that as we've been the highest scorers last season.

And the way we play the game further proves that you're clueless. At our best we dominate teams, control games, puts teams under so much pressure that they normally can't get out of their own half.

How old are you? 18? 19?

in a way both Parr zee and you are right.....we might have outscored everyone last year but Rafa is a cautious manager. He never makes half time subs always around 60/65, he never makes double substitions and we have 11men in the box on corners....thats caution!!!!

When he gets it right our possession football means we can strangle teams into submission becuase everyone knows what they are doing, again Rafa's meticulous approach to games ensures everyone has a game plan and they stick to it.

[el matador]

I was thinking about this this morning.

Liverpool are not an attractive team to watch and havent been since evans left the club. We didnt play decent football under houllier and certainly havent done it under rafa.

There is no entertainment when you watch us. We're all obsessed with the result and how we get there apparently isnt important. But at the end of the day we all like to watch good football and we have a healthy respect for teams like arsenal and barcelona who do play some brilliant stuff.

You can argue that it comes down to the players and the more you spend, the better player you can buy, but if you look at arsenals team yesterday im certain that that team out there didnt cost as much as ours did and when they finally got going they outplayed us.

Masher does what he does and is very good at it. Lucas is getting better but we are yet to see what his strengh is because he isnt brilliant defensively, he isnt a ball winning midfielder and neither will he get 15 goals from central positions.

Our wide players like kuyt and riera dont have any pace or trickery about them and are too predictable. Johnson from the right has been a breath of fresh air for us and people slating him yesterday need to look at themselves because going forward we havent had a better player all season.

[red g]

I was thinking about this this morning.

Liverpool are not an attractive team to watch and havent been since evans left the club. We didnt play decent football under houllier and certainly havent done it under rafa.

There is no entertainment when you watch us. We're all obsessed with the result and how we get there apparently isnt important. But at the end of the day we all like to watch good football and we have a healthy respect for teams like arsenal and barcelona who do play some brilliant stuff.

You can argue that it comes down to the players and the more you spend, the better player you can buy, but if you look at arsenals team yesterday im certain that that team out there didnt cost as much as ours did and when they finally got going they outplayed us.

Masher does what he does and is very good at it. Lucas is getting better but we are yet to see what his strengh is because he isnt brilliant defensively, he isnt a ball winning midfielder and neither will he get 15 goals from central positions.

Our wide players like kuyt and riera dont have any pace or trickery about them and are too predictable. Johnson from the right has been a breath of fresh air for us and people slating him yesterday need to look at themselves because going forward we havent had a better player all season.

at the moment yes.........but then when we get it right and the machine gets into gear we were the best team in the premiership!!!

it was the perfect mix

n

[inijjer]

Bit harsh. Rafa normally asks the team to play longer against Arsenal and I believe his record ain't that bad against Wenger?

[DannyMan2006]

Do you really think that's down to Rafa?

It's about confidence mate, ****ing confidence. Try to play football when you don't have any of it and you'll treat a ball like a hot potato. FFS.

We are playing worse than we normally do at present, but there is still elements of needless hoofing in our team.

But it's like anything in life. Things are really easy when you have it. But when you have a few set backs things get harder and confidence slowly drains away, until you don't have a clue what you are doing and panic everytime you are in the same situation.

[javier_monsterano]

I hate the hoofing and heading when it does nothing most of the time.
But was it yesterday or the game before when we almost gave the ball away at the back,now that is heart attack material.i cant take that **** so yeah get the ball away asap.

[ronanm]

I'm beginning to like the hoofing. Am I alone

[Vermilion]

I sat and watched the game with my brother yesterday and we both monitored the two different styes of play. A few points came to light, none of which is news to anybody following Liverpool.

The amount of times that Carra (most guilty) and other defenders just hoof the ball long for Torres to chase is terrible. Arsenal always played the ball out of defence and only hoof when in danger. We had 5 midfielders yesterday but the urge to get the ball into their area overode any instinct to play the ball to feet. The result was normally straight to an Arsenal player.

The other main point we noticed was heading, so many times a Liverpool player would head the ball out, when not under any pressure, straight to a Gooner. Why the **** can they not bring it under control and then pass to another Red.

Sooo dam frustrating.

I know you refer to a man putting pressure on the defender, but i think just now every ball they play feels like it's done under pressure, not the pressure of life maybe, but football pressure definately, of the type that makes a player do things they maybe normally wouldn't.

Ah Bollocks, Now i'm hearing Wengers praises being sung for getting his side ready for a game they had to win yesterday, which blatantly isn't true, we we're the more ready side at kick off, it took a **** penalty decision and a deflected goal for this 'wenger prepared' side to even get into the game.

[Marky]

Painful alright. We've been doing it for 10 years.

I'm as harsh as anyone on this Liverpool side(always try to be honest) but last season i don't think we hoofed the ball an awful lot. In fact last season we probably played our best football in many, many years. As a result we were the highest scorers in the premiership glat season.

[Roboklopp]

Will quote my post from the post-game cos it is probably more at home in this thread. I completely disagree that we have never been good to watch under Rafa though- even though we obviously arent at the mo...

We started very well & looked very much like the Liverpool of the end of last season. We shouldve had a penalty & been 2-0 up, but it was obvious that everything we were doing right was what we havent been doing for the rest of the season - pace, urgency & focus- so why then did we start the next half at a low tempo & invite pressure back on to ourselves against the best attacking side in the league. This would've been a mistake even had we had the standard of defence we did last season, but it was ridiculous under current circumstances.

The second half was symptomatic of all that is frustrating about the years under Rafa. When we've played well- e.g. the back end of last season- we have been like the unstoppable crushing machine that was Valencia, but when we play badly we look utterly clueless and directionless. The very basics of football are forgotten & we look incapable of passing at all, let alone the the progressive which is so integral to the way we play when we reach those brilliant heights.

That was the reason I was so stressed about losing Xabi in summer as he was a key part of that strategy, although it is inexplicable that we have suffered so much without him. Often the team looks like it has never played the sport at all.

I just dont understand how our passing game can be so inconsistent- that is the key to both our extremes of form under Rafa.

[red g]

Will quote my post from the post-game cos it is probably more at home in this thread. I completely disagree that we have never been good to watch under Rafa though- even though we obviously arent at the mo...

We started very well & looked very much like the Liverpool of the end of last season. We shouldve had a penalty & been 2-0 up, but it was obvious that everything we were doing right was what we havent been doing for the rest of the season - pace, urgency & focus- so why then did we start the next half at a low tempo & invite pressure back on to ourselves against the best attacking side in the league. This would've been a mistake even had we had the standard of defence we did last season, but it was ridiculous under current circumstances.

The second half was symptomatic of all that is frustrating about the years under Rafa. When we've played well- e.g. the back end of last season- we have been like the unstoppable crushing machine that was Valencia, but when we play badly we look utterly clueless and directionless. The very basics of football are forgotten & we look incapable of passing at all, let alone the the progressive which is so integral to the way we play when we reach those brilliant heights.

That was the reason I was so stressed about losing Xabi in summer as he was a key part of that strategy, although it is inexplicable that we have suffered so much without him. Often the team looks like it has never played the sport at all.

I just dont understand how our passing game can be so inconsistent- that is the key to both our extremes of form under Rafa.

I wonder if playing under rafa is like playing under the sctrict schoolteacher?
and as soon as you dont do something right, he is barking orders at you....and doing your head in!!!! hence getting yr head even more down