Hoofing and heading

[Tee]

No it's not, it's absolutely ****ing ****.

They are laughably precious and sanctimonious about their beloved pretty football. Anyone would think they invented it and were built on foundations of pass and move. You'd need a pretty short memory if you can't remember their dire, DIRE football under George Graham.

They wheel that chant out at the most ludicrous of times - a goalkeeper's clearance , a 20 yard ball off the floor....basically any time the ball leaves the ground. I remember once Alonso spraying a delightful 50 yard cross-field ball against them and they started singing it.

And they forget how we used to play. Arrogant cunts.

[Harv]

I don't think it's anywhere near as bad man. Time is a great healer and it's easy to forget just how suicide-inducing those latter Houllier days were. The football was as bad as it gets.

We had two great players at the time, now we have four or five.

Also, when we play well there's no-one more thrilling. We can mix it up, pass it with the best of 'em, and play fast, attacking, cut-throat football.

Sadly we don't seem capable of that anymore and something has gone horribly wrong.

Its not quite as bad as Houlliers final season...but its getting close man.

The players have no confidence out there.

We have played some great football under Rafa, i should say that. But it seems to only ever occur when our backs are against the wall....and he throws caution to the wind.

I love the guy. I desperately want him to lead us to glory. But the reality is thats simply not going to happen for quite a while yet. We have regressed so much this season, that it will probably take another 2 or 3 seasons to mount another challenge. Clubs around us are all getting stronger...and we are disintegrating

[Roboklopp]

aye- hate that chant

[Harv]

Well no, I mean last season in general. Obviously we were particularly impressive from about March onwards but I've seen people posting rubbish like "we were **** all last season too, the 10 game run was an anomaly".

Hello???? We got 86 points last season. You don't get 86 points for 10 or so great performances.

That post was directed at Marky dude

But we were pretty ordinary last season from my memory...we just seemed to get out of jail time after time. It was terrible for the nerves

[Shaggy]

That post was directed at Marky dude

But we were pretty ordinary last season from my memory...we just seemed to get out of jail time after time. It was terrible for the nerves

Man you don't get 86 points if you're ordinary, but I take your point about a lot of miraculous recoveries and late goals. That though was a testament to our spirit and resolve. We seemed to have an incredible team spirit and desire last season - where the **** has that gone?

[red g]

Man you don't get 86 points if you're ordinary, but I take your point about a lot of miraculous recoveries and late goals. That though was a testament to our spirit and resolve. We seemed to have an incredible team spirit and desire last season - where the **** has that gone?

we have gone from a team that i believed in, one where if the oppo scored I thought **** it we can equalise, we can win this.....to a team of when we score i know think, **** when will they equalise

BUT arsenal go through the same thing EVERY season ( might not last 15 games though )

[Scratch]

But we were doing things right first half, playing as we've ever played with Rafa in charge. Putting pressure on the opponent and controlling the game. We scored, should have scored another when Nando missed a great chance then should have had a penalty.

Second half, we seemed to be afraid to do the same things. It's all about mental frailties to me. We need to win ugly, fight for every ball, hoof the ball in the opposition half, whatever, charge for the second ball, but win games. That's more important than the aesthetics at the moment.

This is it in a nutshell for me....the media goes on about Wenger's rant, but i think it was more down to us in the second half....where was the chasing and the harrying, where was the pressing?? For some reason, the players sat back and let Arsenal pass it...big mistake, cos if there's one thing that Arsenal can do, it's pass the ball well. And then we concede a stupid, unfortunate goal...and the heads dropped, and that was all she wrote, all confidence visibly drained out of the players.

[dww]

That post was directed at Marky dude

But we were pretty ordinary last season from my memory...we just seemed to get out of jail time after time. It was terrible for the nerves

Man you don't get 86 points if you're ordinary, but I take your point about a lot of miraculous recoveries and late goals. That though was a testament to our spirit and resolve. We seemed to have an incredible team spirit and desire last season - where the **** has that gone?

I thought we started the season with poor form but with the exact right spirit last season and we built to a period of good form, had a **** run early in the year and then built steadily to excellent form (a few blips in each section of the season bucked the trends but generally). I do think that the difference between the two years was one of the personalities and mentality of the squad.

Players like Hyypia and Alonso had the right mentality that kept us playing the right way and trying to play in the right areas. This season when things go against us we tend to play as individuals and to panic. I really think that a big difference between us and the likes of United is that their key leaders were bought up in a period of success and now to stick to their principles and it will come good, ours like Carragher and Gerrard in a period where one individual had to do everything or we just aimed to hang on to what we had.

If we had more pace in the team we might get away with it (like we did at times under Houllier) as other teams would fear us breaking. The improvement in the PL means that unlike then one player (Torres) is not enough to do that consistently.

I think my biggest criticism of Rafa has been that he has always looked to buy in young players when I do think we have often lacked considered on field leadership. The likes of Gerrard and Mascherano are too much firebrands and Kuyt is too often peripheral to play (I like him a great but he is not an instigator of play like say Giggs on the wing).