Torres abuse

[ronanm]

The problem is not with the combination of Torres and Gerrard, it's the lack of ammunition from midfield. We need someone who could run the midfield and sadly, there's no one even close to doing that at the club, except Gerrard, but we'll lose his ability of playing closer to Torres. The triumvirate of Alonso, Torres and Gerrard was perfect - with Mascherano holding behind them and good width on both flanks. We've lost our heart with the loss of half of that quartet.

We're better off with SG in midfield and either Raul/Babel/Cole playing off FT.

[Shaggy]

Somewhat started by Jamie Redknapp's post match comments I believe.

Took a train journey today so bought The Mirror.

****. Me.

Their headline on the backpage was about what Redknapp said about him. WTF. Post-match comments from some borderline brain-damaged 'pundit' become the headline rather than the match itself?!

[Craig_H]

The problem is not with the combination of Torres and Gerrard, it's the lack of ammunition from midfield. We need someone who could run the midfield and sadly, there's no one even close to doing that at the club, except Gerrard, but we'll lose his ability of playing closer to Torres. The triumvirate of Alonso, Torres and Gerrard was perfect - with Mascherano holding behind them and good width on both flanks. We've lost our heart with the loss of half of that quartet.

Absolute agree Nigel.

For me, as i said in earlier in the thread, our means of getting the ball from the back to the front, is now Lucas and Poulsen, and for a team that was used to having Alonso doing that role, the current scenario is staggeringly insufficient.

I can only hope that Meireles has some of the purposeful passing and use of the ball that Xabi did, because if he doesnt, we're looking at a season-long isolation of Gerrard and Torres.

[Craig_H]

Can i just say that, for me, when everyone's fit, we have the tools needed to succeed (for the most part).

Reina
Johnson Carra Agger Koncho
Lucas Meireles
Kuyt Gerrard Cole
Torres

For me, that team is pretty good - we need to get Nando sharp and hungry again, Gerrard and Cole need to create and Kuyt needs to have a 'good Kuyt' season - along with Meireles being good and settling in rapidly - but on paper, that's a good side.

You can argue the toss about Poulsen over Lucas, much of a muchness for me. Likewise with possibly Babel or Pacheco on the right - you'd gain pace or guile, but lose Kuyt's workrate, so take it on a game-by-game basis.

But on paper, when all are fit, we have a good team.

But then, we did last season too - they just played like donkeys

[Vermilion]

Can i just say that, for me, when everyone's fit, we have the tools needed to succeed (for the most part).

Reina
Johnson Carra Agger Koncho
Lucas Meireles
Kuyt Gerrard Cole
Torres

For me, that team is pretty good - we need to get Nando sharp and hungry again, Gerrard and Cole need to create and Kuyt needs to have a 'good Kuyt' season - along with Meireles being good and settling in rapidly - but on paper, that's a good side.

You can argue the toss about Poulsen over Lucas, much of a muchness for me. Likewise with possibly Babel or Pacheco on the right - you'd gain pace or guile, but lose Kuyt's workrate, so take it on a game-by-game basis.

But on paper, when all are fit, we have a good team.

But then, we did last season too - they just played like donkeys

Did what..have everyone fit..?

[Craig_H]

Did what..have everyone fit..?

No, i meant we had a good team on paper LAST season too.

As soon as football stops being played on grass, we'll be sorted

[Vermilion]

No, i meant we had a good team on paper LAST season too.

Ahh right. If only football was played on paper.

Our quality/strength in depth is woeful imo, having to stretch a measly budget has seen to that over recent years.

[Craig_H]

Ahh right. If only football was played on paper.

Our quality/strength in depth is woeful imo, having to stretch a measly budget has seen to that over recent years.

Do you really think so?

When everyone's fit, we have backup players like Skrtel, Kyrgiakos, Kelly, one of Lucas/Poulsen, Babel, Pacheco, Maxi, N'Gog etc.

I dont think that's too bad personally. I'm still clinging to the idea that our players ARE actually good, and that they've just been playing badly.

For about 15 months

[Big-Red-Ed]

Torres was pretty poor yesterday and doesn't look to be enjoying it much. The media has jumped all over him and Roy has had to come out and defend him.

However, and I'm sure others have probably mentioned this but right up the middle of the team their is zero creativity. Torres was given next to no service. Frustration at the lack of quality service is at the root of his demeanour. He looked superb for spain last week were he was guaranteed good service.

Add to that we look like a team going downhill with downgraded players, a downgraded manager and no new owners on the horizon.

Loyalty or no he is probably thinking he is beginning to waste the best years of his career with us, no matter what affection he has for us supporters.

For now he needs to graft himself and us out of the doldrums. Giving 100% every game is the only way he is going to make himself feel better because everything else is out of his control.

[RichC]

Can i just say that, for me, when everyone's fit, we have the tools needed to succeed (for the most part).

Reina
Johnson Carra Agger Koncho
Lucas Meireles
Kuyt Gerrard Cole
Torres

For me, that team is pretty good - we need to get Nando sharp and hungry again, Gerrard and Cole need to create and Kuyt needs to have a 'good Kuyt' season - along with Meireles being good and settling in rapidly - but on paper, that's a good side.

You can argue the toss about Poulsen over Lucas, much of a muchness for me. Likewise with possibly Babel or Pacheco on the right - you'd gain pace or guile, but lose Kuyt's workrate, so take it on a game-by-game basis.

But on paper, when all are fit, we have a good team.

But then, we did last season too - they just played like donkeys

Agree with you here, we have a decent side and we have decent back up players as well - the nucleus of the team I think is there, and the changes you mentioned are certainly a game by game basis swap depending what you needed.

What we're missing in spades is bloody confidence, I am not expecting Raul to be as good as Xabi but from what I've seen he'll certainly offer more passing wise than Lucas/Poulson and if we can get the ball into dangerous positions for for the front 4 we'll do fine.

Just got to get this sides confidence back

[Craig_H]

And to be fair, the hard games we've had to start explain why confidence is low, because we've not played well or won enough. This is exactly why the order of the fixtures matters so much. Whilst everyone plays everyone, if you get an easy start like Chelsea did, you roll off win after win, your confidence sky-rockets and then when you have a hard game, you're so confident and have so much momentum, that you're in good shape to play the tough games.

With us, we've had a hard start, results havent been great, so confidence takes a knock, we have no momentum and then when you play 'easy' games, because you have no confidence or momentum, the easy games suddenly become hard. It's a pisstake really. If we'd had West Ham away, Wigan home, West Brom away and then Blackpool at home, as our first 4 games, we'd probably have 12 points now, be flying and going to OT full of confidence and with the momentum to go there looking to beat them.

[Shaggy]

And to be fair, the hard games we've had to start explain why confidence is low, because we've not played well or won enough. This is exactly why the order of the fixtures matters so much. Whilst everyone plays everyone, if you get an easy start like Chelsea did, you roll off win after win, your confidence sky-rockets and then when you have a hard game, you're so confident and have so much momentum, that you're in good shape to play the tough games.

With us, we've had a hard start, results havent been great, so confidence takes a knock, we have no momentum and then when you play 'easy' games, because you have no confidence or momentum, the easy games suddenly become hard. It's a pisstake really. If we'd had West Ham away, Wigan home, West Brom away and then Blackpool at home, as our first 4 games, we'd probably have 12 points now, be flying and going to OT full of confidence and with the momentum to go there looking to beat them.

[RichC]

And to be fair, the hard games we've had to start explain why confidence is low, because we've not played well or won enough. This is exactly why the order of the fixtures matters so much. Whilst everyone plays everyone, if you get an easy start like Chelsea did, you roll off win after win, your confidence sky-rockets and then when you have a hard game, you're so confident and have so much momentum, that you're in good shape to play the tough games.

With us, we've had a hard start, results havent been great, so confidence takes a knock, we have no momentum and then when you play 'easy' games, because you have no confidence or momentum, the easy games suddenly become hard. It's a pisstake really. If we'd had West Ham away, Wigan home, West Brom away and then Blackpool at home, as our first 4 games, we'd probably have 12 points now, be flying and going to OT full of confidence and with the momentum to go there looking to beat them.

Agreed, getting your season off against the likes that Chelsea had we'd certainly be on a lot more points perhaps even the max and we'd be feeling good going to OT - I am sure the Chelsea fans wouldn't see it like this but then most I know are blind to most things!

Problem is this hasn't happened and we've got to find a way to motivate the players and get them believing that they can get the results again - we're not a bad team it just seems the players don't really believe it and if Stevie or Nando aren't getting the goals I am not sure anyone else believes they can step in and get them at the moment.

Having Cole coming back and Merieles coming into the side I hope they'll bring a bit of confidence in with them that rubs off on some of the others.

[Icon]

Arsenal - bad luck
West Brom - ground out a result
Man City - learned a lesson (with a little bad luck also)
Birmingham - Bad selection but ground out a point

Now West Brom apart these are not the easiest games to start a season, and as we are still in transition (yeah I know we heard it over and over but we are once more) with injuries and suspensions too.
Once we are able to pick from a matchfit squad, the first 11 should pick themselves and get results.

34 to go FFS!

[RichC]

Arsenal - bad luck
West Brom - ground out a result
Man City - learned a lesson (with a little bad luck also)
Birmingham - Bad selection but ground out a point

Now West Brom apart these are not the easiest games to start a season, and as we are still in transition (yeah I know we heard it over and over but we are once more) with injuries and suspensions too.
Once we are able to pick from a matchfit squad, the first 11 should pick themselves and get results.

34 to go FFS!

I would agree with this although not sure about the bad selection part against Brum - who should have been bought in instead of the 11 we put out?

I'll give you Agger but with Miereles not match fit and massive question marks over Babel and whether he can actually pull himself together and be the player most of us think he can be I am not sure who Roy could have put out instead.

I think you're bang on the money with our first 11 when fit though