I hope you're proud of yourselves

[Shaggy]

Delete it then.

[Reece]

It's time like this I bet you were still a mod eh

I might find a more appropriate thread to move it all into instead.

[Neil Young]

Move it to the Jokes forum. You're good at that.

[Fernandinho]

As much as I want Rafa back, its very ironic that the song constantly says "I never look back" when the whole videos was just that, looking back.

[el matador]

The original post wasn't just aimed at Est users it was meant to be aimed at those Liverpool fans as a whole who turned on Rafa as last season progressed (including a small minority on here) and were very vocal about him getting fired.

If you don't believe that fan power played a significant role in Benitez leaving then you are very naive. I fully admit Rafa made a lot of mistakes last year. But I also firmly believe if all the fans had continued to support him fully he would still be at the club now and we'd be in much better shape than we are currently. Whether you want that or not, or if you agree is to up you.

If you don't want him at the club now and are happy with the subsequent results of him leaving then I have to accept that, but I still stand by my point that those that really turned on Rafa last season made a significant contribution to him leaving and the knock on affect of that decision has sent us tumbling into the bottom three. I hardly think that's hysterical to be honest and I think you're being over-sensitive.

Some Liverpool fans ****ed up in wanting Rafa gone, including a handful on here, those that did should be willing to accept that IMO.

the fans didnt get rid of him the board and the owners did. there was a lot going on and rafa got too involved with the off field stuff because he knew exactly what the owners were up to.

with all due respect to blame the fans for rafas departure is a little simplistic. i wanted him to stay even though i genuinely believe that the current teams natural cycle had come to an end and we needed a revolution not just a couple of players.

unfortunately rafa and the board knew he didnt have the money to do it and it was easier to get rid of rafa than to buy a new team

[Lisburn Red]

The original post wasn't just aimed at Est users it was meant to be aimed at those Liverpool fans as a whole who turned on Rafa as last season progressed (including a small minority on here) and were very vocal about him getting fired.

If you don't believe that fan power played a significant role in Benitez leaving then you are very naive. I fully admit Rafa made a lot of mistakes last year. But I also firmly believe if all the fans had continued to support him fully he would still be at the club now and we'd be in much better shape than we are currently. Whether you want that or not, or if you agree is to up you.

If you don't want him at the club now and are happy with the subsequent results of him leaving then I have to accept that, but I still stand by my point that those that really turned on Rafa last season made a significant contribution to him leaving and the knock on affect of that decision has sent us tumbling into the bottom three. I hardly think that's hysterical to be honest and I think you're being over-sensitive.

Some Liverpool fans ****ed up in wanting Rafa gone, including a handful on here, those that did should be willing to accept that IMO.

Sorry I really have no idea what you are talking about?

[Darkon]

That’s a bit harsh if you ask me. In Rafa’s first three years, we got to 4 cup finals, twice in the biggest tournament in the world. We were poor at the start of 07/08, but after the Barnsley defeat when Rafa changed to 4231 we became a different team overnight and played some lovely football.

From that point until the end of the following season our stats in both CL and PL were:

Played 69
Won 45 (65%)
Drew 19 (28%)
Lost 5 (7%)
Goals scored 139 (2.01 per game)
Goals conceded 58 (0.34 per game).

So not only were we scoring an impressive two goals every game and rarely losing, we had some memorably victories along the way like Inter, Madrid and United.

So if you would honestly swap what happened those first 5 years and go back to the Evan's era, then personally I think you are a mad man. Lets not forget, the PL was also a more level playing field in those days and arguably easier to win. Don't let last season's disaster cloud the success Rafa brought this club.

I don't know if it's that harsh. Since Houllier we have been playing defensive minded football, but have have been more effective at certain times than others. Rafa did many things for our club but an offensive style of play he never gave us, he continued what Houllier had started.

That said we had some fantastic games and fantastic results under him except for the last season really, and the first one if you look at the league alone. Some of my best memories watching this club stems from Rafa's period in charge, but he also gave us some quite boring football when nothing else was at stake.

I still hope and believe that we need to get another type of manager and get us back to the offensive style of football and get a lot more movement on the pitch. That is the way forward for me, and that is what we should focus on right now, not the "how would it be" arguments.

[Lecter]

I don't know if it's that harsh. Since Houllier we have been playing defensive minded football, but have have been more effective at certain times than others. Rafa did many things for our club but an offensive style of play he never gave us, he continued what Houllier had started.

That said we had some fantastic games and fantastic results under him except for the last season really, and the first one if you look at the league alone. Some of my best memories watching this club stems from Rafa's period in charge, but he also gave us some quite boring football when nothing else was at stake.

I still hope and believe that we need to get another type of manager and get us back to the offensive style of football and get a lot more movement on the pitch. That is the way forward for me, and that is what we should focus on right now, not the "how would it be" arguments.

To me Rafas football was different to Houlliers

Houlliers team in general sat back defended deep and tried to hit teams on the break

Rafa's tried to press the ball higher up the pitch and control the ball in those areas

[RedReet]

I don't know if it's that harsh. Since Houllier we have been playing defensive minded football, but have have been more effective at certain times than others. Rafa did many things for our club but an offensive style of play he never gave us, he continued what Houllier had started.

That said we had some fantastic games and fantastic results under him except for the last season really, and the first one if you look at the league alone. Some of my best memories watching this club stems from Rafa's period in charge, but he also gave us some quite boring football when nothing else was at stake.

I still hope and believe that we need to get another type of manager and get us back to the offensive style of football and get a lot more movement on the pitch. That is the way forward for me, and that is what we should focus on right now, not the "how would it be" arguments.

Again, I don’t think you’re giving the team the credit it deserves for that 18 month period. Bar last year, the PL winners had a similar goal scoring record of 2 per game. It’s all well and good remembering the Evan’s era and the exciting football, but what made it so good? Was it our attacking flair or our **** defence? Evan’s goal scoring record doesn’t come close to our average over them 18 months, and our returns in other years with rafa were also quite similar to Evan’s (without the **** defence).


94/95
Position: 4th.
Games Played: 42
Goals Scored: 65
Average: 1.55 per game

95/96
Position: 3rd
Games Played: 38
Goals Scored: 70
Average: 1.84 per game

96/97
Position: 3rd
Games Played: 38
Goals Scored: 68
Average: 1.79 per game

97/98
Position: 4th
Games Played: 38
Goals Scored: 62
Average: 1.63 per game


We had a bad spell approaching Christmas in 08/09 when we drew a few games back to back and Sky became obsessed with our ‘negative’ formation. I’m guessing for some reason people seem to remember these few weeks before the many months either side of them when we were destroying teams for fun.

[Arn]

To me Rafas football was different to Houlliers

Houlliers team in general sat back defended deep and tried to hit teams on the break

Rafa's tried to press the ball higher up the pitch and control the ball in those areas

Rafa's tactics was about to press the opponents all over the pitch and a balanced attacking football with a lot of ball possession. It wasn't all out attacking, it was a balanced attacking football. Not defensive but not attacking either.

I will never understand how anyone can say that he is a defensive minded manager when we had the ball most of the time. We totally dominated at Anfield season after season for example. He made Anfield a fortress again playing good balanced attacking football. We didn't sit back at home, we dominated and created a lot of chances and scored a lot of goals.

That means that something like 50% of the games we dominated and in many cases totally dominated but he is still called defensive minded

Very weird.

[Galb]

Again, I don’t think you’re giving the team the credit it deserves for that 18 month period. Bar last year, the PL winners had a similar goal scoring record of 2 per game. It’s all well and good remembering the Evan’s era and the exciting football, but what made it so good? Was it our attacking flair or our **** defence? Evan’s goal scoring record doesn’t come close to our average over them 18 months, and our returns in other years with rafa were also quite similar to Evan’s (without the **** defence).


94/95
Position: 4th.
Games Played: 42
Goals Scored: 65
Average: 1.55 per game

95/96
Position: 3rd
Games Played: 38
Goals Scored: 70
Average: 1.84 per game

96/97
Position: 3rd
Games Played: 38
Goals Scored: 68
Average: 1.79 per game

97/98
Position: 4th
Games Played: 38
Goals Scored: 62
Average: 1.63 per game


We had a bad spell approaching Christmas in 08/09 when we drew a few games back to back and Sky became obsessed with our ‘negative’ formation. I’m guessing for some reason people seem to remember these few weeks before the many months either side of them when we were destroying teams for fun.

Great post. Its amazing how much things become received wisdom. We were never that good or that attacking under Evans. Yes, there were some great performances but there were a lot of terrible results and the 'attacking' myth seems to have grown out of our poor defence and the 4-3's against Newcastle.

Same with Rafa. I just dont see the negative/boring thing. Yes, when he took over we had some tremendously negative performances (especially against teams like Barcelona who were much better than us) but that was a function of the fact that he recognised they were better than us, and that the team he inherited from Houllier was built for defensive football. But that allowed a lot of the media to pigeonhole him as defensive based on his first season which I think was unfair. He didnt have a kamikaze approach to attacking but his team had a good goalscoring record and a commitment to controlling the ball and the play - which is very different to the sit back and defend and then counter approach of Houllier and Hodgson.

If anything, his undoing was trying to take the attacking too far by bringing in even more offensive players like Aquilani and Johnson to replace Alonso and Arbeloa which disrupted between attack and defence in the short term. But I think it would have come right in the long term - we were playing some lovely football towards the end of last season, especially in the Uefa Cup quarter and semi finals.

Although no doubt some will claim Im imagining it!

[squaddie]

You all helped force one of the best managers we ever had out of the club and it resulted in him being replaced with Roy Hodgson. Most of us could see a million miles off it would end in disaster, and it has. It's as simple as that, and I'm pissed off about it.

For one you shouldn't be using words like 'you all' as far as pointing the finger at who 'turned' on Rafa. There were a lot of fans who didnt want to see his departure. Plus do you really think it was the fans that was the straw that broke the camels back?! There we're an numerous (not necessarily correct imo) reasons that not only the fans had but the board, owners etc had that meant he should leave. As already mentioned the problem wasn't getting rid of Rafa but finding a worthy replacement.

[Lecter]

Rafa's tactics was about to press the opponents all over the pitch and a balanced attacking football with a lot of ball possession. It wasn't all out attacking, it was a balanced attacking football. Not defensive but not attacking either.

I will never understand how anyone can say that he is a defensive minded manager when we had the ball most of the time. We totally dominated at Anfield season after season for example. He made Anfield a fortress again playing good balanced attacking football. We didn't sit back at home, we dominated and created a lot of chances and scored a lot of goals.

That means that something like 50% of the games we dominated and in many cases totally dominated but he is still called defensive minded

Very weird.

No I understand why they say hes negative (two holding midfielders is hardly attacking) but there are various degrees of negative football

To me Houllier & Hodgson are far and away more negative than Rafa was

[the rev leeroy brown]

No we would not. Sorry but that's pure dog****. Where's the evidence for that? At what point during his six years with us were we ever in this position, eh?

its not dog****. we were ****ing awfull last year and no matter what peope on here say, theres no smoke without fire and rafa had lost that dressing room IMO. we were on a steady decline last year and had he stayed the performances would probably have gone the same way.

no evidence cause no one knows but **** me some people on here fail to see that its just someones opinion - we are all allowed one you know.

[Craig_H]

I'm not sure it's simply a case of 'negative' or 'positive', 'attacking' or 'defensive'. Rafa was very regimented in his system, rarely did he change the system mid-game, even if a result was getting away from us. It'd usually be like-for-like positional subs, eg he wouldnt take off a DM for a striker - he had ultimate belief in the system and if things werent working, the personnel would change, but the system rarely ever got abandoned during a game.