I hope you're proud of yourselves

[Fredo]

No-one is saying that Hodgson was the right choice. However turning around and saying we shouldn't have sacked Rafa because of what Hodgson is doing is a ludicrous argument. Should we have stuck with a manager that after 6 years got us to 7th place and gave us one of our worst season in years? No. A manager has got to show progress, great managers don't have bad seasons, they improve year after year. We challenged for the league title once in six seasons. Not good enough for Liverpool Football Club.

Would I swap where we are now for seventh? Its a stupid question because seventh is ****e for a club like us, as is where we are now.

If you are stuck in a rut you can stick with what you have and accept mediocrity or you can change, and the club decided to change. Change is a risk, it doesn't always work. But it has to happen, otherwise its more of the same.

So now we have changed, and the risk is not working. Does it mean we shouldn't have changed? No, because the club does not accept mediocrity. Just like it won't with Hodgson.

Yes we should have. There were none better available and our problems were not Benitez, it was the owners.

[Fredo]

Sorry chaps (Neil & Shaggy). Just seen that I've posted roughly the same thing as you, should have spared people the repetition.

[Craig_H]

spot on mate. it was pure witch hunting at its worst on here. a cpl of posters got so bad it was embarresing, and YES they know who they are............COUGHcraighCOUGH

****.

And off.

[the rev leeroy brown]

No-one is saying that Hodgson was the right choice. However turning around and saying we shouldn't have sacked Rafa because of what Hodgson is doing is a ludicrous argument. Should we have stuck with a manager that after 6 years got us to 7th place and gave us one of our worst season in years? No. A manager has got to show progress, great managers don't have bad seasons, they improve year after year. We challenged for the league title once in six seasons. Not good enough for Liverpool Football Club.

Would I swap where we are now for seventh? Its a stupid question because seventh is ****e for a club like us, as is where we are now.

If you are stuck in a rut you can stick with what you have and accept mediocrity or you can change, and the club decided to change. Change is a risk, it doesn't always work. But it has to happen, otherwise its more of the same.

So now we have changed, and the risk is not working. Does it mean we shouldn't have changed? No, because the club does not accept mediocrity. Just like it won't with Hodgson.

spot on bar the managers dont have **** seasons. wenger has a couple of **** seasons but still a great manager IMO.

[Fernandinho]

****.

And off.

I think that would have looked better if you had written it as so:

****.

and

Off.

Maybe with bold, maybe in red. Could have used caps lock. Underline would have been cool too. Did you consider bullet points and maybe aligning it to the centre. All things which might be considered for next time.

[Pablo]

I think that would have looked better if you had written it as so:

****.

and

Off.

Maybe with bold, maybe in red. Could have used caps lock. Underline would have been cool too. Did you consider bullet points and maybe aligning it to the centre. All things which might be considered for next time.

[Craig_H]

I think that would have looked better if you had written it as so:

****.

and

Off.

Maybe with bold, maybe in red. Could have used caps lock. Underline would have been cool too. Did you consider bullet points and maybe aligning it to the centre. All things which might be considered for next time.

[Vermilion]

Ha, just followed a link to that site 'The Liverpool Kop'... what a load of ****e that place is... they really do seem proud on there funnily enough..revelling in it...slagging Rafa off like he meant last season.

Banging on about Rafa not doing things the liverpool way because he answered a question today..and decided to stick up for himself against all the utter ****e that's been printed.

Blah!!

[vonk]

It isn't because the absolute fundamental rule when sacking a manager is you only do it if you can replace him with someone better. And clearly that was never going to happen, and it hasn't happened. We've got worse, much worse.

Someone better...so what defines a better manager? I'm sure the board thought Hodgson could do better than Rafa, just like I think Coyle could do a better job than Hodgson. The argument trotted out by some about Hodgsons record at Fulham and Blackburn is flawed logic because he was dealing with a much less talented squad. It was not unreasonable to think when he was appointed, that Hodgson could succeed in getting the best out of a talented squad, just like he got the best out of a **** squad at Fulham. Rafa was not getting the best out of that squad and it was clear from the performances last season, so therefore it was a perfectly reasonable appointment based on this. It's easy now to realise it was not a change for the better, but again, to suggest we shouldn't make a change is simply seeing Rafa' reign through the haze of time.

[Maz]

Sometimes Rafa frustrated the heck out of me. I couldn't get my head round a lot of his decisions and at times thought they had no positive impact on the game whatsoever. I think this season has really highlighted what an achievement last year was though and we're seeing just what an important player Mascherano was for us too.

I felt that the decision to move Rafa on wasn't an entirely wrong decision at the time. I loved (and still do love) the man but I suppose my expectations and reality weren't really compatible at the time. I'd walk to Milan to fetch him back now though. We need someone who understands not just about the tactics and the game but exactly what is involved in managing a team of our stature. It's Roy's inability to grasp that that is setting our current tone. If the manager has low expectations then the players will have. Rafa always expected us to compete and achieve. Roy just expects us to try to compete with achievement just a nice bonus.

[fah-q]

Someone better...so what defines a better manager? I'm sure the board thought Hodgson could do better than Rafa, just like I think Coyle could do a better job than Hodgson. The argument trotted out by some about Hodgsons record at Fulham and Blackburn is flawed logic because he was dealing with a much less talented squad. It was not unreasonable to think when he was appointed, that Hodgson could succeed in getting the best out of a talented squad, just like he got the best out of a **** squad at Fulham.

thats the same flawed logic that Fat Sam has used to convince himself he'd win the lot if given the Real Madrid job.

[vonk]

I disagree overall but I think you make some good points. Certainly there's an argument to say change is necessary and doesn't always work out. However I think your argument is fatally flawed by the assertion that good managers don't have bad seasons. Ferguson's a pretty good manager - look at his record in the first ten years of his job at Manchester United: 11th, 2nd, 11th, 13th, 6th, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 1st. It's not a smooth upward curve. And Ferguson always had money to spend - at least comparable with the biggest spenders in the league, if not more.

When you take into account the reduction in our transfer budget, with money going on servicing the leeches' acquisition debt, then I think there's a much stronger argument to excuse even finishing seventh (even without taking into account the fact we weren't that far off fourth and were without our two best players for much of the season) and give the manager time to put it right.

On top of that it was always obvious we weren't going to replace Rafa with a manager of similar stature, experience and talent. And so it has proved.

Ultimately it comes down to whether it works - change for change's sake has not worked.

Most important for the terms of this discussion, we're not talking simply with the benefit of hindsight here. It was clear we were going to be worse off without Benitez. The only thing none of us got right is just how bad it was going to be.

As I mentioned, it was reasonable to think that Hodgson could get the best out the squad, as he'd done so last season. It was a calculated gamble.

I have to disagree about Rafa not having money though....

[Vermilion]

There were many many reasons why Rafa never got the best out of a squad he had previously led to 2nd place the season before...and i'd go as far to say that those reasons which as i say were many...in the end had a cumulitive effect on the whole club during that season..untill then he'd done well to handle everything that was going on. imo.

But too much was going on...battle lines were being drawn as we now know behind the scenes...mistrust was probably rife and a power struggle was ongoing....all because rbs needed their men in position...which they did, whether Rafa really understood all that..who knows..i doubt it, but signing players and winning trophies imo was the furthest thing from Purslow and Broughtons minds...which is fair enough, but Rafa as much as anyone is just a victim of circumstance...the circumstance that took place when H&G took over.

[Galb]

Someone better...so what defines a better manager? I'm sure the board thought Hodgson could do better than Rafa, just like I think Coyle could do a better job than Hodgson. The argument trotted out by some about Hodgsons record at Fulham and Blackburn is flawed logic because he was dealing with a much less talented squad. .

Er, hadnt Blackburn won the league a season or two before he got them relegated?

And didnt he just get Fulham back to where they were when Coleman was in charge?

So basically, we appointed someone who's better than Lawrie Sanchez.

I dont think you needed to have a crystal ball to see how that would work out.

[SRR]

Someone better...so what defines a better manager? I'm sure the board thought Hodgson could do better than Rafa, just like I think Coyle could do a better job than Hodgson. The argument trotted out by some about Hodgsons record at Fulham and Blackburn is flawed logic because he was dealing with a much less talented squad. It was not unreasonable to think when he was appointed, that Hodgson could succeed in getting the best out of a talented squad, just like he got the best out of a **** squad at Fulham. Rafa was not getting the best out of that squad and it was clear from the performances last season, so therefore it was a perfectly reasonable appointment based on this. It's easy now to realise it was not a change for the better, but again, to suggest we shouldn't make a change is simply seeing Rafa' reign through the haze of time.

Anyone that thought Hodgson was going to do a better job than Rafa is either deluded or believed the crap the press were spouting. You just have to look at his record, he has never won anything of any importance. Replacing Rafa with Hodgson is like replacing a porsche with a lada.