Pack your bags Roy

[destinydude]

Evidently it wasnt good enough.

The best players are overpriced, 90% of the time. That is basically a fact, give or take a little on the percentage.

Again, buying a overpriced young player(read Torres back in 07) makes more sense than buying a Diego Milito for £16m(in 2009) when you know he won't recoup you the money and his better yrs will be behind him after a season or two.

It makes no financial sense in buying over priced older players when you are competing with teams that generate more than £100m than you do.(ManU,Arsenal,Real,Barca) all earn significantly more than us and by significant, I mean £100m or so more than us.

How do you compete with them by buying ridiculously priced players when you can look for better deals around?

And do you really think, giving Carragher a 90k a week 2 yr extensions is for the good of the club?

[danperkins]

Oh **** off with your gullible BS Craig. Arsenal/Arsene chose not to spend or pay OTT because he thinks it's more important to clear the debts off now and try to win things with the squad he has at his disposal.

The way they've brought down their debts to £200m now is very very impressible.

Winning is good when you have money, but if you are planning to borrow money to win and then you struggle to pay off later you end up like Portsmouth.

Their fans aren't the happiest of chaps right now but in the next 3-4 yrs they'll have **** loads to spend on players and zero debts. All of them will then be thanking Wenger for the work and sacrifices he put in while spending nothing and yet maintaining their team in the UCL places every single yr.

[Craig_H]

Oh **** off with your gullible BS Craig. Arsenal/Arsene chose not to spend or pay OTT because he thinks it's more important to clear the debts off now and try to win things with the squad he has at his disposal.

The way they've brought down their debts to £200m now is very very impressible.

Winning is good when you have money, but if you are planning to borrow money to win and then you struggle to pay off later you end up like Portsmouth.

Their fans aren't the happiest of chaps right now but in the next 3-4 yrs they'll have **** loads to spend on players and zero debts. All of them will then be thanking Wenger for the work and sacrifices he put in while spending nothing and yet maintaining their team in the UCL places every single yr.

I'm disagreeing with you, and presenting evidence to back up my viewpoint - if you dont like it, you can '**** off', not me.

Bringing down their debt is great, but it's not what i'm talking about. NESV say they are 'here to win', and in the PL, if you want to win, you have to pay big money, as proven by the fact that United won titles when they spent massive money, and same with Chelsea. I've no doubt that City will win it in a few years too. It even goes right back to Blackburn in the mid 90s.

You even prove my argument yourself:

Their fans aren't the happiest of chaps right now but in the next 3-4 yrs they'll have **** loads to spend on players and zero debts

That's basically what i'm saying - they'll have **** loads to spend on players and will probably win something then. While they havent spent ****loads, they've won nothing. So clearly, in the vast majority of cases, if you dont spend big, you dont get the best players and therefore dont win.

What are you even disputing in that?

[Craig_H]

Again, buying a overpriced young player(read Torres back in 07) makes more sense than buying a Diego Milito for £16m(in 2009) when you know he won't recoup you the money and his better yrs will be behind him after a season or two.

It makes no financial sense in buying over priced older players when you are competing with teams that generate more than £100m than you do.(ManU,Arsenal,Real,Barca) all earn significantly more than us and by significant, I mean £100m or so more than us.

How do you compete with them by buying ridiculously priced players when you can look for better deals around?

And do you really think, giving Carragher a 90k a week 2 yr extensions is for the good of the club?

I honestly have no idea what argument you're even making. Where did i mention Carragher? I've said the top player cost big money and i've said teams who win titles generally need to have a mix of youth and experience/leaders. Can you tell me what part of those things do you disagree with? Hopefully without telling me to '**** off' as well

[destinydude]

I'm not missing your point, but you back it up with we 'nearly' won the league - whatever the ins and outs of it, the fact is we didnt win it. Arsenal's youth/stingy spending approach doesnt win it. Chelsea overpaid for most of their players, they win the title. United spent £90m on 3 of their key players, they win the league.

As i've said, i'm going on the evidence that's available, and it seems to back up what i'm saying.

The best players out there are nearly always overpriced - they're in high demand and wherever there's high demand, prices will soar. Why would a selling club sell a top class player for 'what he is worth' when there's likely to be an auction or premium which sends the price sky-high?

As i said before, Ronaldo wasnt worth £80m, but that's the premium you have to pay. It's always been the case, with rare exceptions, the world's best players cost big money.

And there in lies the fault in your argument. You don't always have to buy Ronaldo for £80m to win a League title or titles of any kind for that matter.

Ronaldo was bought for £12m and was used well by Fergie and sold smartly. Ruud Van Nistelrooy was bought for £16m yes a bit high back then but it wasn't an earth shattering price either!

NESV believe they'll look for good deals like that when buying rather than buying someone for a ridiculous £80m

[Craig_H]

And there in lies the fault in your argument. You don't always have to buy Ronaldo for £80m to win a League title or titles of any kind for that matter.

Ronaldo was bought for £12m and was used well by Fergie and sold smartly. Ruud Van Nistelrooy was bought for £16m yes a bit high back then but it wasn't an earth shattering price either!

NESV believe they'll look for good deals like that when buying rather than buying someone for a ridiculous £80m

Christ, i used Ronaldo as an example, i didnt say you need 11 Ronaldos in your side

Generally speaking, teams who win the title do so because they've got the best team and that is usually made up of quality players. Do you agree?

And top quality players usually cost a lot of money. Do you agree?

If you think teams which arent made up of top quality players win titles, and that top quality players dont usually cost of a lot of money, then fair enough. We clearly disagree on that.

[destinydude]

I honestly have no idea what argument you're even making. Where did i mention Carragher? I've said the top player cost big money and i've said teams who win titles generally need to have a mix of youth and experience/leaders. Can you tell me what part of those things do you disagree with? Hopefully without telling me to '**** off' as well

Oh pls, the Carragher bit was a question I put forth to you with all your exp is needed to win things. DO you really think we need to be shelling out £4.5m in wages every yr for Carragher to win titles or players of that sort with experience?

And what in the world makes you believe that we won't be buying experienced players?

As a matter of fact, we have enough experienced players in our squad right now.

[DannyMan2006]

No it's not. Expensive players like Milito at their age are finishing touches when a team has the capability of winning the League and Champions League, there is no point in us signing those types of players now. Building a strong foundation with the backbone of talented youth is the way to go.

Agreed. Buying an older player who will complete the jigsaw is fine as they can win trophies, which is worth money, which in turn makes them value for money.

And there is nothing wrong with building a young team. The Arsenal problem is that they have sold their better young players when they become top class, meaning other clubs get the benefit of their progress.

A competitive club long term needs a healthy turnover of players, with young replacing the old. I've seen many a successfull team just age and burn out with the manager making no plans for the future and instead moving on and letting another manager take the fall.

For Liverpool to be a long term success they need long term planning. As for £80m on a single player, I think the FIFA fair play rules will put paid to that pretty damn soon. The days of the billionaires taking a club to the next level are almost at an end.

[Craig_H]

Oh pls, the Carragher bit was a question I put forth to you with all your exp is needed to win things. DO you really think we need to be shelling out £4.5m in wages every yr for Carragher to win titles or players of that sort with experience?

And what in the world makes you believe that we won't be buying experienced players?

As a matter of fact, we have enough experienced players in our squad right now.

I certainly think it's very rare for any side to win a title without a good base of experience in its squad, and a couple of 'leaders' with a strong mentality. Arsenal have neither, and they provide a good example of my point.

Again, if you dont think that it's very rare for any side to win a title without a good base of experience in its squad, and a couple of 'leaders' with a strong mentality, then fair enough. I think you'd be incorrect, but it's your perogative.

My area of concern has been with the talk of NESV not being interested in players of a certain age. Age has been mentioned quite emphatically in what i've heard.

[Lecter]

Oh **** off with your gullible BS Craig. Arsenal/Arsene chose not to spend or pay OTT because he thinks it's more important to clear the debts off now and try to win things with the squad he has at his disposal.

The way they've brought down their debts to £200m now is very very impressible.

Winning is good when you have money, but if you are planning to borrow money to win and then you struggle to pay off later you end up like Portsmouth.

Their fans aren't the happiest of chaps right now but in the next 3-4 yrs they'll have **** loads to spend on players and zero debts. All of them will then be thanking Wenger for the work and sacrifices he put in while spending nothing and yet maintaining their team in the UCL places every single yr.

Not sure they will wipe out their debts in 3 or 4 years

One of the reasons their debt plummetted was because the Highbury apartments

Arsenal property sales clear debt, boost results
11:32 BST, Fri 24 Sep 2010
LONDON, Sept 24 (Reuters) - Arsenal Football Club <AFC.PZ> posted record full-year profit before tax of 56 million pounds ($87.76 million), due to the sale of property at the old Highbury site and the sale of players such as Emmanuel Adebayor and Kolo Toure.

Arsenal said their full-year accounts showed the club was in good financial health and could continue to invest in the team, staff and training facilities. The group's property business is now debt free and generating surplus cash.

Arsenal, currently second in the English Premier League behind champions Chelsea, said on Friday they had generated 157 million pounds of revenue from property, allowing them to repay 130 million pounds of bank loans.

The overall level of group net debt was also reduced to 136 million pounds.

"The most pleasing aspect of these results is that the returns generated in the property business during the year, particularly at Highbury Square, have allowed us to repay 130 million pounds of bank loans and significantly reduce the group's overall net debt," non-executive Chairman Peter Hill-Wood said in a statement.

The club, which finished last season in third place, said it had made a profit from player trading of 13.6 million pounds, compared with a profit of 2.9 million pounds in 2009.

[destinydude]

Christ, i used Ronaldo as an example, i didnt say you need 11 Ronaldos in your side

Generally speaking, teams who win the title do so because they've got the best team and that is usually made up of quality players. Do you agree?

And top quality players usually cost a lot of money. Do you agree?

If you think teams which arent made up of top quality players win titles, and that top quality players dont usually cost of a lot of money, then fair enough. We clearly disagree on that.

No one is disagreeing with you that top players cost a buck or two more but the point I was making is it doesn't make sense in buying over priced experienced players financially, with the sort of money we have/generate.

And you continuously using the Ronaldo @ £80m doesn't help things either.

JWH said they are in the market for the highest calibre players but he ants to buy young players cos that is the way to go even if they cost a bit more than their original price.

I will definitely not agree with you when you say we need to buy older/exp'ed players like Forlan or Milito for over the top prices. It doesnt make any sense whatsoever.

[Craig_H]

Agreed. Buying an older player who will complete the jigsaw is fine as they can win trophies, which is worth money, which in turn makes them value for money.

And there is nothing wrong with building a young team. The Arsenal problem is that they have sold their better young players when they become top class, meaning other clubs get the benefit of their progress.

A competitive club long term needs a healthy turnover of players, with young replacing the old. I've seen many a successfull team just age and burn out with the manager making no plans for the future and instead moving on and letting another manager take the fall.

For Liverpool to be a long term success they need long term planning. As for £80m on a single player, I think the FIFA fair play rules will put paid to that pretty damn soon. The days of the billionaires taking a club to the next level are almost at an end.

Two things...i wasnt saying you should have old players and make no plans for the future. And i didnt say we had to be spending £80m, i was just using that as an example of how overpriced the best players can be. Kaka is another example, Buffon for £32m yet another.

[Redspin]

Oh **** off with your gullible BS Craig. Arsenal/Arsene chose not to spend or pay OTT because he thinks it's more important to clear the debts off now and try to win things with the squad he has at his disposal.

The way they've brought down their debts to £200m now is very very impressible.

Winning is good when you have money, but if you are planning to borrow money to win and then you struggle to pay off later you end up like Portsmouth.

Their fans aren't the happiest of chaps right now but in the next 3-4 yrs they'll have **** loads to spend on players and zero debts. All of them will then be thanking Wenger for the work and sacrifices he put in while spending nothing and yet maintaining their team in the UCL places every single yr.

They won't have zero debts for at least 20 years and must qualify for the CL every year to meet their financial targets. This formula has led them to being uncompetitive with no trophies for six seasons and even finishing behind us in three of the last five

[Fernandinho]

I can't even work out what they are arguing about

[Craig_H]

No one is disagreeing with you that top players cost a buck or two more but the point I was making is it doesn't make sense in buying over priced experienced players financially, with the sort of money we have/generate.

And you continuously using the Ronaldo @ £80m doesn't help things either.

JWH said they are in the market for the highest calibre players but he ants to buy young players cos that is the way to go even if they cost a bit more than their original price.

I will definitely not agree with you when you say we need to buy players like Forlan or Milito for over the top prices. It doesnt make any sense whatsoever.

As i said, Ronaldo was one example - it's the most emphatic example of the point.

Being in the market for the highest calibre players is good, as long as he's prepared to pay the going rate. And young players is great too, but you DO need one or two experienced heads, someone to keep their cool in a difficult moment, a leader who can hold the team together mentally.

I didnt say we need to buy players like Forlan or Milito for over the top prices. My point was simply that we should not be dismissing players just because of their age, which seems to be the mantra.