Hodgson: I was so unlucky

[Roboklopp]

Great post.
It's like a sect sometimes regarding Rafa. It feels like more people are talking about him than the club in this place. Or maybe the people who do post more often?

So why is it OK for Carra to bring it up like that then. Most of us hardcore Rafa supporters are (finally) well on the way to moving on with The King in charge now, but then Carra starts up the old **** again.

Talk about double- ****ing standards. Takes the piss. I just want to enjoy the result but then there's **** like this we shouldnt even be thinking about.

[Shaggy]

Just because there's no cast-iron proof (when is there ever absolute proof in footballing off-field matters?) that Carragher, Gerrard and others conspired to get Rafa sacked and bring in their man Hodgson doesn't mean it didn't happen. There's a **** load of smoke, enough quotes and circumstantial evidence to reach a reasoned conclusion. It's pretty clear if you ask me. In fact I think it's blatant.

They've been great servants, yes, no question. But they are paid to play, not to make decisions in relation to the future of the football club and who is in charge of the team. They were clearly IMO allowed far too much influence under their mate...that Purslow cunt. I think it is blatantly obvious what happened re Hodgson.

[Arn]

It's not just about Rafa though is it? Saying having "a lot of Spaniards" being such an issue is just ****ing stupid & bordering on racism. It's not even like the Spanish lads-and coaches- we had were substandard is it?

Each time just as I try to forget Carra's alleged involvement in Rafa's dismissal & concentrate on the wider issue of LFc, he comes out with **** like this.

What would have happened if the board wanted to get in another Spanish manager because they simply thought he would the best option. Would that be possible with players like Carra and Gerrard still playing for us?

Villas Boas for example is probably a no go as long as they play for us, Portuguese of course but not much difference.

When players are allowed to much say then it could stop the club developing.

The simple reason to why Fergie survived all this years is because he got rid of whatever player that thought he was bigger than the manager.

If we want to develop as a club then we can't allow a single player to act like he is bigger than the manager. If he do, get rid as soon as possible and by that way show that the boss is the boss and the player is only a player and we will replace him.

Right now KK is our only option simply because of Carra and Gerrard IMO. I'm not saying that I don't want KK as our manager, only that the option isn't there if our board want another foreign manager because the same thing that allegedly happened with Rafa would happen again.

[Lecter]

What about Rafa's role in the removal of Rafa? Crying out loud, anyone would think we were some dominant crushing machine in his last season with a manager loved by all the fans and everyone else at the club, not a team that frequently underperformed with a manager who was really quite isolated, partially at least through his own doing.

I was a big Rafa fan, but some of the revisionist history that passes for fact these days about him is bordering on the ridiculous. If players are unhappy under a manager why shouldn't they express it inhouse... its not their fault if the powers that be at the time choose to act upon it.



Yeah I know, I always regret bringing it up for the ****storm it inevitably causes, and for the way it inevitably seems to cast me on one side of the RCDNW/R debate I spent years fighting to avoid on this very site, but someone has to balance some of this stuff just occasionally.

I've no problems with expressing such an opinion (if asked) but the way they manipulated and manouveured to get senior execs to sack Rafa and then appoint the man they wanted was beyond a mere expression of opinion

[barnes10]

What about Rafa's role in the removal of Rafa? Crying out loud, anyone would think we were some dominant crushing machine in his last season with a manager loved by all the fans and everyone else at the club, not a team that frequently underperformed with a manager who was really quite isolated, partially at least through his own doing.

I was a big Rafa fan, but some of the revisionist history that passes for fact these days about him is bordering on the ridiculous. If players are unhappy under a manager why shouldn't they express it inhouse... its not their fault if the powers that be at the time choose to act upon it.



Yeah I know, I always regret bringing it up for the ****storm it inevitably causes, and for the way it inevitably seems to cast me on one side of the RCDNW/R debate I spent years fighting to avoid on this very site, but someone has to balance some of this stuff just occasionally.

Isnt the point that we were a crushing machine and due in large part to carra and gerrard contributing WELL below par in rafa's final season we failed to build on it. so their form losing us points and wanting rafa out are inextricably linked. and conspiracy theory heaven. agree its all rumour and speculation so hard to be precise but going on gut feel, I think they let personal issues with rafa/contracts etc spill onto the pitch. They contributed to his downfall very significantly.

the one thing we know is that rafa was not backed in the transfer market as well has he deserved to be and a lot of stories point to him not being backed as the most important part of the club. some players had too much power. dead man walking in that circumstance and no surprise we flopped to 7th.

i dont agree with anyone who thinks Rafa has done no wrong and made no mistakes and i dont agree with anyone who thinks carra and stevie were squeaky clean and 100% professional with their performances. but what i do insist on is that rafa is backed as the man in charge with ALL players giving their all in line with his instructions. This is the very minimum for me and I feel very aggrieved that Rafa didnt get it. His achievements given the circumstances were fantastic.

[Lecter]

Just because there's no cast-iron proof (when is there ever absolute proof in footballing off-field matters?) that Carragher, Gerrard and others conspired to get Rafa sacked and bring in their man Hodgson doesn't mean it didn't happen. There's a **** load of smoke, enough quotes and circumstantial evidence to reach a reasoned conclusion. It's pretty clear if you ask me. In fact I think it's blatant.

They've been great servants, yes, no question. But they are paid to play, not to make decisions in relation to the future of the football club and who is in charge of the team. They were clearly IMO allowed far too much influence under their mate...that Purslow cunt. I think it is blatantly obvious what happened re Hodgson.

I think the senior players view should be considered Parry did this during the appointment of Rafa

The difference was Parry had already drawn up his list and interviewed the candidates before consulting the players

Purslow hadnt done any of that hence the shocking decision to listen to players advice and sack a superior manager and appoint someone totally **** like Roy

[Fredo]

I think it's clear now, especially after reading Rafa's interview this week end, that the main destabilising agent at the club and the main reason why we had such a **** season last year was because of political manoeuvrings amidst the higher echelons of the club. Rafa was clearly undermined.

[Shaggy]

He was clearly undermined IMO and by several key individuals too. He made his fair share of mistakes but with the amount of skullduggery going on then he never stood a chance last season. Shameful but they made their bed and while Hodgson was here we all had to lie in it.

[Pablo]

Do we really need another debate on this?

This is your fault MrM!

[Neil Young]

I've sinbinned MrM. Let's now move on.

[RedReet]

Isnt the point that we were a crushing machine and due in large part to carra and gerrard contributing WELL below par in rafa's final season we failed to build on it. so their form losing us points and wanting rafa out are inextricably linked. and conspiracy theory heaven. agree its all rumour and speculation so hard to be precise but going on gut feel, I think they let personal issues with rafa/contracts etc spill onto the pitch. They contributed to his downfall very significantly.

the one thing we know is that rafa was not backed in the transfer market as well has he deserved to be and a lot of stories point to him not being backed as the most important part of the club. some players had too much power. dead man walking in that circumstance and no surprise we flopped to 7th.

i dont agree with anyone who thinks Rafa has done no wrong and made no mistakes and i dont agree with anyone who thinks carra and stevie were squeaky clean and 100% professional with their performances. but what i do insist on is that rafa is backed as the man in charge with ALL players giving their all in line with his instructions. This is the very minimum for me and I feel very aggrieved that Rafa didnt get it. His achievements given the circumstances were fantastic.

Well said.

[Pablo]

I've sinbinned MrM. Let's now move on.

MrM could do with learning a thing or two from the more respected posters on the site like me, yourself and Bender

[MrMichael]

It's not just about Rafa though is it? Saying having "a lot of Spaniards" being such an issue is just ****ing stupid & bordering on racism. It's not even like the Spanish lads-and coaches- we had were substandard is it?

No, its not that's true, I was just responding to an inherent vibe and some posts earlier in this thread. The Spanish thing is a little odd, however, well, none of us were working at the club for the last few years. Its not bordering on racism even remotely if he's talking about a specific divide that had been festering within the club, a feeling of favouritism or whatever, around a particular Spanish manager, Spanish coaches and Spanish players, rather than just Spaniards in general. Yeah its a bit stupid of Carra to say it at all, and then to phrase it like that, but the lad is a footballer not an intellectual.

Lets say the company you might work for is taken over by a foreign firm, who come in and gradually replace everyone you know and trust with people of their nationality, some of whom are good at their jobs but some of whom aren't, and integration is not really fostered from the top... well, no matter how well the company did from then on, how much resentment do you think could build up?

Look, I don't know, I wasn't there, and I'm not massively impressed with the way most anyone at the club has acted for the last few years really, but I do think a bit more leeway than many fans seem to be allowing our guys should be allowed.

Don't understand Mr. Michael's rant there.

Its not even close to a rant. If it was it would have at least one smiley in it.

They've been great servants, yes, no question. But they are paid to play, not to make decisions in relation to the future of the football club and who is in charge of the team.

We could probably say the same of other groups at the club in the last 20yrs or so. I suspect its a common factor throughout the history of football really, when relationships between owners, executives and management are as insane as they were at the club in the last few years then into that vacuum players will always step. These aren't robots, no matter how much they're paid, if you hated your hypothetical boss and had the ear of a company director who was thinking of sacking him anyway, wouldn't you tip them over the edge?

I've no problems with expressing such an opinion (if asked) but the way they manipulated and manouveured to get senior execs to sack Rafa and then appoint the man they wanted was beyond a mere expression of opinion

Ok, well lets say thats true. But then we kinda have to ask how that was allowed to develop anyway by the man responsible for managing those players. Gerrard, Torres and Carra you say, well at the start of the 2009-10 season if you'd asked most fans, those were basically our 3 world class players, two of whom will possibly be lifelong servants, who've stuck with us through thick and thin. For things at the club to have deteriorated so badly that they would want to manipulate Rafa out, well, you do have to ask why? And whether that alone gives you grounds for sacking him?

[MrMichael]

Do we really need another debate on this?

This is your fault MrM!

Oh god, I know. I might accidentally delete all evidence of this debate and blame it on server gremlins or something. Its a shame redhot's not a mod anymore or I could have blamed her. Obviously kidding Sarah ;-)

I've sinbinned MrM. Let's now move on.

I'm going to sinbin you just for lulz soon. I very nearly just did it right then but I want time to play some poker at some point this morning. In fact I might make just it a daily thing, a different (real) mod decides each morning whether you'll be banned, sinbinned or allowed on the site that day.

MrM could do with learning a thing or two from the more respected posters on the site like me, yourself and Bender

Look, Craig's in a sulk at the moment so someone's got to be argumentative to keep the forum's chi straight, and I'm never anything if not community spirited

[Reece]

Oh god, I know. I might accidentally delete all evidence of this debate and blame it on server gremlins or something. Its a shame redhot's not a mod anymore or I could have blamed her. Obviously kidding Sarah ;-)

Just blame PTP instead.

I'm going to sinbin you just for lulz soon. I very nearly just did it right then but I want time to play some poker at some point this morning. In fact I might make just it a daily thing, a different (real) mod decides each morning whether you'll be banned, sinbinned or allowed on the site that day.

Good idea. Can I go first?