European Pecking Order?

[Morph]

I would say 90% of rational football fans would strongly, strongly, disagree with these three statements.

Okay let me re-word, I don't think Chelsea or Barca will win it and they aren't my favourties.

I don't think Man U have a stronger starting 11 than we do, and I think a lot of people would agree with me on that.

And based on all previous performances, I still don't understand why you list Chelsea so highly

That any better for you?

[Craig_H]

Look mate I'm not even talking to you but just for humors sake:

If you only want to speak to AA, i suggest you PM him. These are, after all, open forums, for all forum members to engage in discussion. Presumably, your opinion is still the same whether you're expressing it to AA, or anyone else. Therefore, i dont think it's unreasonable for others, myself included, to join in with the discussion.

Comparing it to the FA cup 3rd round is ridiculous, for reasons that don't even need explaining. Maybe comparing the situation to the quarters would be more reasonable, but even then there's still a good chance of a team being there who isn't good enough to be there.

Third round was a bit extreme yes. Even in the quarters however, there are teams with more chance of winning it than others. And you're right that there would be a decent chance of a team that isnt good enough, being there. In which case, if they're not good enough, surely that backs up my point that some teams have more chance of winning it than others? In other words, the fact that the team isnt good enough to be there surely makes THAT team less likely to actually go on and win the trophy, than a team that IS perceived good enough to be there?

I know who the bookies favorites are but bookies change their odds every day, means nothing to me who ladbrokes or the like have on as odds on favorites to win.

I accept that, but the odds arent done on a random basis. Whilst obviously not fool-proof, they DO offer a guide.

Maybe referring to last 16 as favorites was an oversight, the point I was suggesting was that they all have a decent chance of wining the comp, we don't even know what the draw is yet by the time the last 16 hits, half of them could be drawn against each other.

I totally agree with this, of course the last 16 or more so, the last 8 all have a chance of winning it. I was merely disputing the notion that their respective chances of success were 'equal' which is what was previously implied.

[Craig_H]

No I'm posting with my, I don't believe I was actually talking to you in the first place hat on, but seeing as it's a public forum I guess I'll have to deal with it.

I can see that you dont know and/or 'respect' me or my views too highly, but surely you can see how childish the 'was i talking to you?' angle comes across?

[Craig_H]

Okay let me re-word, I don't think Chelsea or Barca will win it and they aren't my favourties.

I don't think Man U have a stronger starting 11 than we do, and I think a lot of people would agree with me on that.

And based on all previous performances, I still don't understand why you list Chelsea so highly

That any better for you?

Who are, in your view, the favourites?

Secondly, with just a one-word answer, would you agree that we punched slightly above our weight, with regards to our points total of last season?

[Morph]

Who are, in your view, the favourites?

Secondly, with just a one-word answer, would you agree that we punched slightly above our weight, with regards to our points total of last season?

Don't believe in favorites in a competition like the champs league, maybe in the UEFA cup you can because there are quite obviously some better teams in there. But the Champions league is in essence a competition for the best teams in Europe, and to be in the last 16 suggests you are in that top echelon of teams, so in my view there are no favorites. But with my LFC hat on I'm saying Liverpool.

One word - no

(but I'm subject to my opinion changing when I see what happens at the end of this season)

[Craig_H]

Don't believe in favorites in a competition like the champs league, maybe in the UEFA cup you can because there are quite obviously some better teams in there. But the Champions league is in essence a competition for the best teams in Europe, and to be in the last 16 suggests you are in that top echelon of teams, so in my view there are no favorites. But with my LFC hat on I'm saying Liverpool.

One word - no

(but I'm subject to my opinion changing when I see what happens at the end of this season)

Fair enough mate

[Morph]

I can see that you dont know and/or 'respect' me or my views too highly, but surely you can see how childish the 'was i talking to you?' angle comes across?

Have no problem with your views and I don't believe I've said anything to that effect thus far - the was i talking to you was pretty much a piss take.

However you did seem to be jumping to defend 'your mate' as it were.

[Morph]

Third round was a bit extreme yes. Even in the quarters however, there are teams with more chance of winning it than others. And you're right that there would be a decent chance of a team that isnt good enough, being there. In which case, if they're not good enough, surely that backs up my point that some teams have more chance of winning it than others? In other words, the fact that the team isnt good enough to be there surely makes THAT team less likely to actually go on and win the trophy, than a team that IS perceived good enough to be there?

I take issue with this, because the FA cup is open to anyone in the English FA, so a team like Boston UTD or whoever could somehow find themselves in there. The Champions League is for 'the' top teams in each league, so that's not possible on a one off game basis, like the FA or Uefa cup. There are of course some stragglers but they are 9 times out of ten out of the competition by the last 16 anyway. When I see the last 16 I'll be able to make a better judgment for myself.

[Craig_H]

Have no problem with your views and I don't believe I've said anything to that effect thus far - the was i talking to you was pretty much a piss take.

However you did seem to be jumping to defend 'your mate' as it were.

It's not so much a case of 'defending' anyone, rather just a case of stating my view, which happened, on this occasion, to come across as 'defending' him.

I just post how i see things, regardless of who else feels the same, or differently.

[Morph]

It's not so much a case of 'defending' anyone, rather just a case of stating my view, which happened, on this occasion, to come across as 'defending' him.

I just post how i see things, regardless of who else feels the same, or differently.

Okay imagine the scene

A pub

Mr A is talking to Mr B about their views on a particular footballing issue, the discussion is getting heated.

Mr C walks into the pub and stands at the bar and orders a Vodka and Lemonade, whilst listening to the conversation between Mr A and Mr B.

Mr B (rather rudely) goes off to the bog to relieve himself in mid conversation, Mr C overhearing Mr A and Mr B's conversation comes over to Mr A who's happily drinking his pint watching the game on the big screen and starts telling him how he disagrees with Mr A's comments.

Mr A stands there aghast at the gall of this fella, suddenly Mr B comes back from the bog, and shakes Mr C's hand, and allows Mr C to continue on where he left off.

Mr A then looses interest in the discussion because Mr B who he was having the original conversation with is no longer taking part.

You get me?

[Craig_H]

Not really. People go to the pub with their mates and conversations are usually private. A discussion forum is somewhat different to that. Well, IMO it is anyway.

Let's just agree to disagree.

If you'd rather i didnt converse with you in future, just let me know and i'll leave you be.

[Maestro]

Am i?

Reading what i'm actually posting would be quite beneficial, methinks...

Touché

[Morph]

Not really. People go to the pub with their mates and conversations are usually private. A discussion forum is somewhat different to that. Well, IMO it is anyway.

Let's just agree to disagree.

If you'd rather i didnt converse with you in future, just let me know and i'll leave you be.

I've said before I don't have a problem with you, I'll talk to everyone - well except Dunk but I don't think he comes on here.

Just i was talking to the other fella, and then I was talking to you as well, and it's easier just to talk to one person.

My Pub scenario was just a good humored aside anyway, of course I don't think you drink Vodka and Lemo.





How bout a Malibu and coke?

[Craig_H]

Hehe....only if you promise not to spike it

[brikkis]

Jesus Christ.

You're surely, SURELY, not actually arguing that it's likely we'll win the competiton this season, are you ?

Let's track back for a second, I suggested there are eleven sides which have the capacity to win the competiton this season, in which I included Liverpool. A fair statement, no doubt you'll agree ? I then said Chelsea and Barca were the two outstanding favourites, again, realistic and fair, with me so far ?

I then stated there were four sides Man United, Real Madrid, Lyon and AC Milan that had more of a chance than us to lift the Cup in May, after that, we had as good a chance as anyone. Madrid have won it 9 times and have a much, much better squad than us, likewise AC Milan, who have won it 6 times. Now, you clealy took issue with Lyon and Man Utd being added to my list, allow me to argue my corner.

Man Utd currently have a better squad than us and a better first eleven. *Gulp* Yes, as much as it pains me to say it, they're in much better shape than us, as our recent meeting at Old Trafford and the league table should lend considerable evidence towards. There can be no argument here.

Lyon are a tricky one, it would fascinating to see us meet them for numerous reasons, not least because our styles are so different, but nonetheless, the way they dismantled Real Madrid suggests to me they still mantain a greater chance of winning the trophy, than ourselves.

I have never bought this half arsed theory that 'the best side does not always win the competiton'. Please allow me to demythologise it for you.
Apart from Porto and ourselves, the best sides DO usually win the competition. During the last ten years the 'best' (ie' bookmakers favourite) side has won the competiton seven times. Barcelona were the best side last year, Milan were the best side in 2003, Madrid in 2002, Munich in 2001, the list goes on....

So, basically, I've said there are six sides in Europe more likely to win the Champions league than us, that's not pessemistic at all, if anything, it's a fairly generous comment. I'm saying we're the 7th best side in Europe, joint with Arsenal, Valencia and a couple of others....

blocked you are young padawan as am i