If You Could Pick One English Player...

[ningnangnong]

What if you were born in a country, but left at about the age of one of something and grew up in another country for the next twenty years of your life, which country should you represent?

You wouldn't know anyhting about the culture of anything of the first country.

[Redspin]

Bollocks. He hasn't had his best run of form this season but he has stil linked play neatly in most games and been integral in a very good start to the season by United. He did have a poor game against Southend, but the whole team looked directionless and in need of a leader.

He's been crap all season. He's only scored in two games - against newly-promoted Watford and injury and illness-hit Portsmouth.

[Morph]

He's been crap all season. He's only scored in two games - against newly-promoted Watford and injury and illness-hit Portsmouth.

eh? we talking about the Rooney who scored a hat trick v bolton

[red g]

He's been crap all season. He's only scored in two games - against newly-promoted Watford and injury and illness-hit Portsmouth.

take off those scum hating specatcles. Rooney is an awesome talent.

[dww]

Our very own Craig Johnston was born in S Africa, grew up in Australia where he took citizenship, but qualified for, apart from those two countries, England, Scotland, Wales, N Ireland and the Irish Republic, because his parents were British. How daft is that? Or the case of Alfredo di Stefano who, before the rules were changed, swapped nationalities (in the way you seem to favour) and played at full international level for Colombia, Argentina and Spain. Makes a mockery of international competition.

I also think you'll find that one's home country does have a mystical hold over the majority of people for their entire lives.

I have to say I agree with Red Polo. The concept of national identity is not tied alone to the place you were born but also to how you were raised. It's not as if RP advocated the ability to pick a nation at random or for players to be renationalised for the sake of football. In general even in athletics where Dubai seem to be willing to pay people to change national allegiance it is pretty rare - which makes me suspect that in general people will pick the nation they feel the most passionate about playing for. Surely that is the core of the idea of international competition, the idea that players play passionately for their country?

[CAD]

Within budget? No-one!

[jayjay]

Fantasy: Rooney dreaming: Richards Possible:Bale

[Redspin]

What if you were born in a country, but left at about the age of one of something and grew up in another country for the next twenty years of your life, which country should you represent?

You wouldn't know anyhting about the culture of anything of the first country.

I don't think you qualify for an international team based on your knowedge of culture of the country - with the obvious time-honoured exception of playing for Ireland because your granny drank Guinness - before the thought police get involved I'm 100% of Irish heritage - although my granny drank Mackeson rather than Guinness!

[Redspin]

eh? we talking about the Rooney who scored a hat trick v bolton

Quite right - that's what I meant!

[Redspin]

take off those scum hating specatcles. Rooney is an awesome talent.

And why would I want to do that?

The awesome talent that is Fatboy took until his 3rd season to pass the 20 league goal mark (comfortably behind his yellow card tally in the same period) and hasn't scored in a competitive game (or looked likely to) for 2 years now - and they describe him as a striker. Indeed, the papers were saying he'd be England's saviour at the World Cup - never quite happened though as he went missing in action - again

[Redspin]

I have to say I agree with Red Polo. The concept of national identity is not tied alone to the place you were born but also to how you were raised. It's not as if RP advocated the ability to pick a nation at random or for players to be renationalised for the sake of football. In general even in athletics where Dubai seem to be willing to pay people to change national allegiance it is pretty rare - which makes me suspect that in general people will pick the nation they feel the most passionate about playing for. Surely that is the core of the idea of international competition, the idea that players play passionately for their country?

That just encourages the flag of convenience mentality though. Even our own great John Barnes freely admitted at the end of hs career that he wasn't passionate about playing for England - and why should he be as a lad who was raised in Jamaica and only came over in his teens because his dad was military attche - or something of the kind - at the Jamaican High Commission? But he was happy to raise his international profile by playing for England

[Red_Polo]

Er...no, it's because if you are born in a country - let's say England - then you are indisputably of that country and there's no argument about your right of qualification. You appear to believe a player can be born anywhere and do a nationality Pick 'n' Mix for the most tenuous of reasons.

Players like Hargreaves, to whom England is a place on a map over 5,000 miles away, to opt for that country when he can realistically have no idea what it means to be English, makes a nonsense of calling him "English". By coincidence, my girlfriend is from his home town - the apparently translocated English city of Calgary, Alberta. She loves England and lives over here by choice (unlike Hargreaves) and has done for years and years, but has never taken citizenship and travels on a Canadian passport. Her links with England are immeasurably stronger than Hargreaves', but she just doesn't feel "English" (though she had an English mother).

Our very own Craig Johnston was born in S Africa, grew up in Australia where he took citizenship, but qualified for, apart from those two countries, England, Scotland, Wales, N Ireland and the Irish Republic, because his parents were British. How daft is that? Or the case of Alfredo di Stefano who, before the rules were changed, swapped nationalities (in the way you seem to favour) and played at full international level for Colombia, Argentina and Spain. Makes a mockery of international competition.

I also think you'll find that one's home country does have a mystical hold over the majority of people for their entire lives.

So some people do play for a certain country out of convenience, what the **** has that to do with Hargreaves? My point it that you don't know him personally so cannot possibly attest to which identity he associates himself with given his background.

[Red_Polo]

He only went to Germany when he was 16 or so I believe, possibly a couple of years later, having been spotted by Bayern scouts in junior football. It's not like his folks emigrated to Germany when he was a nipper and he had citizenship. He could only have qualified for Germany if he'd adopted their nationality but for lucky old us he'd opted for our flag of convenience instead

Totally missed the point there then. You say he plays for England out of convenience so I pointed out it might be even more convenient to play for Germany considering they are more successful and he already lives there. Yet he chose to play for England, why? Perhaps you need to consider the way he identified himself given his father was English and played football in England. Why has Hargreaves been whoring himself around looking for an English club ffs? He wants to play in England, it's what he's always wanted!

[Red_Polo]

I don't think you qualify for an international team based on your knowedge of culture of the country - with the obvious time-honoured exception of playing for Ireland because your granny drank Guinness - before the thought police get involved I'm 100% of Irish heritage - although my granny drank Mackeson rather than Guinness!

It's not about 'knowledge' of a country, it's about the culture ingrained in you and the way you perceive yourself. A concept you clearly fail to understand, preferring instead to think of the situation as simplistic as 'if your born there that's what you are'. Absolute bollocks.

As soon as I read in your post....

'I am personally dead set against players not born in a country playing for that country'

...words like 'nationalism' and 'essentialism' screamed out at me. Wake up, the world and it's people are far more complex than you see it.

I've got friends that were born in HK or India but have grown up with an overwhelmingly British culture, their parents being English and them having moved back here in their late teens. I suppose you think they are not quite English enough for you, and you'd prefer the national identity police to tell these fakers to **** off and play for India/HK? That may be an extreme example, but you can certainly see the situation is a long way away from the ignorant black and white situation you would like to see enforced.

[Colemere]

Got to be Micah Richards, easily going to be the best CB in the country in about 3 or 4 years.

Can't see it happening thought.