Norwich post match thread

[Vermilion]

That was dire today i'm afraid, for 2 thirds of the game, Norwich were the better side and that's unacceptable. It wasnt much better than the dross we had under a lot of Hodgson's time.

Kenny made a catalogue of errors IMO.

1. Adam should never have started - he cannot play as a DM, so that was left to Gerrard, which meant Gerrard's attacking threat was completely removed - in favour of Adam, who isnt fit to lace his boots. Spearing should've started to protect the back four and release Gerrard to do what he's good at - scoring and creating danger.

2. Not starting Carroll was a mistake and not bringing him on until the 80th minute, and even bigger one. Both Kuyt and Suarez drop off and go wide, which meant there were times when we simply didnt have a striker. We'd get the ball into the box and there was nobody there. Dreadful decision to leave him out.

3. Downing on the right. Why oh why, oh why, oh ****ing why? He offers nothing whatsoever on the right. At least left wing he is comfortable and is natural to him - right wing, he does sweet **** all. Pretty anonymous today.

4. Why didnt Agger start? Bizarre.

5. Why didnt Kelly stay in the side? He's been excellent and deserved to play.

6. When Henderson came on, that should've been Maxi. Henderson doesnt offer anything in a wide role and Maxi's more suited. Plus Maxi's ball retention is excellent and at the time, we couldnt string 2 passes together.

7. Why the **** do we never get bodies into the box? We're crossing to ONE player in the area, surrounded by 4 or 5 defenders. ****ing impossible task.

8. Why were we sitting off Norwich so ****ing often? Backing off, inviting them onto us. Why? No proper pressing. Absolutely ridiculous and Hodgson-esque.

All in all, that's not good enough, not by a ****ing long shot. People will talk about how many chances we created, but i'm hearing an echo here. Chances are nothing if you dont score. Simple fact is, we've played 5 league games and we've only won 2 out of them. Not beating United is forgiveable but we couldnt beat Sunderland and we couldnt beat Norwich. 9 home points out of a possible 15 is nowhere near good enough.

Based on this points return at home, we will not finish in the top four.

So frustrating.

[Arn]

That was dire today i'm afraid, for 2 thirds of the game, Norwich were the better side and that's unacceptable. It wasnt much better than the dross we had under a lot of Hodgson's time.

Kenny made a catalogue of errors IMO.

1. Adam should never have started - he cannot play as a DM, so that was left to Gerrard, which meant Gerrard's attacking threat was completely removed - in favour of Adam, who isnt fit to lace his boots. Spearing should've started to protect the back four and release Gerrard to do what he's good at - scoring and creating danger.

2. Not starting Carroll was a mistake and not bringing him on until the 80th minute, and even bigger one. Both Kuyt and Suarez drop off and go wide, which meant there were times when we simply didnt have a striker. We'd get the ball into the box and there was nobody there. Dreadful decision to leave him out.

3. Downing on the right. Why oh why, oh why, oh ****ing why? He offers nothing whatsoever on the right. At least left wing he is comfortable and is natural to him - right wing, he does sweet **** all. Pretty anonymous today.

4. Why didnt Agger start? Bizarre.

5. Why didnt Kelly stay in the side? He's been excellent and deserved to play.

6. When Henderson came on, that should've been Maxi. Henderson doesnt offer anything in a wide role and Maxi's more suited. Plus Maxi's ball retention is excellent and at the time, we couldnt string 2 passes together.

7. Why the **** do we never get bodies into the box? We're crossing to ONE player in the area, surrounded by 4 or 5 defenders. ****ing impossible task.

8. Why were we sitting off Norwich so ****ing often? Backing off, inviting them onto us. Why? No proper pressing. Absolutely ridiculous and Hodgson-esque.

All in all, that's not good enough, not by a ****ing long shot. People will talk about how many chances we created, but i'm hearing an echo here. Chances are nothing if you dont score. Simple fact is, we've played 5 league games and we've only won 2 out of them. Not beating United is forgiveable but we couldnt beat Sunderland and we couldnt beat Norwich. 9 home points out of a possible 15 is nowhere near good enough.

Based on this points return at home, we will not finish in the top four.

We didn't had any option than to sit back with Carra, Skrtel, Adam and a no match fit Gerrard playing. They can't cover enough space so we had sit back.

Gerrard is probably only 50% or 60% match fit. It will take a couple of months until he is match fit again. You simply don't get match fit in a couple of games after only playing a few games the last seven eight months.

As you, me and many others said. It was crazy to start Carra and Skrtel instead of Agger, madness.

It is beginning to look like that Carra and Skrtel is our first choice and we won't have a chance to finish in the top four if that is the case, no chance.

Is Kenny a good match coach? Not on the evidence I have seen so far. Is he good enough to build up a good working system? Not on the evidence we seen so far.

As you point out. He make to many basic mistakes. You can see that he been out a long time. The methods that worked 15 years ago don't work now. Different times and you need to adapt something he hasn't done.

15 years ago you could get away with playing Adam and a no match fit Gerrard in the middle in games like this but not now. Now the opposition will have studied videos and clips and will use any weakness against you.

Norwich pumped crosses into the box because our back four is very average in the air. Team after team use that weakness against us.

That is why Coates must play sooner rather than later. He may or may not make other mistakes but we must sort out our weakness in the air and we must do it now.

[truefan999]

I will repeat what I said in the KD thread and what I said before he was appointed.

So in precis you are saying that KD uses 442 far too much. His buys have been average but at vastly inflated prices.

Think what we could have done if someone else (even Rafa) was spending that £100m plus.

If only some people had seen this ahead of time and had the nerve to speak out

[Arn]

I will repeat what I said in the KD thread and what I said before he was appointed.

So in precis you are saying that KD uses 442 far too much. His buys have been average but at vastly inflated prices.

Think what we could have done if someone else (even Rafa) was spending that £100m plus.

If only some people had seen this ahead of time and had the nerve to speak out

We don't have the players to dominate games playing 4-4-2. We may have that in two months time or so when Gerrard is match fit but not now.

The games we dominated so far since Kenny took charge is the ones we have played other systems, not 4-4-2.

I don't think we have dominated a single game playing 4-4-2 since Kenny took charge.

Play a system that suits the players and that isn't 4-4-2.

I asked a question earlier? How much do Kenny look at videos, clips etc to find a weakness we can use? How much do he look at videos, clips etc to look at our weaknesses and correct them?

That is something he must do hour after hour before every game.

He make the same mistakes again and again. That is the problem. That points to that he don't look at videos and clips that much.

Adapt to the new times Kenny and don't be so stubborn. Use the technology out there and you can be a success. Football have changed the last 15 years and it changed a lot. Do your homework better.

Manager after manager is winning the tactical battle against you.

[Shaggy]

That was dire today i'm afraid, for 2 thirds of the game, Norwich were the better side and that's unacceptable. It wasnt much better than the dross we had under a lot of Hodgson's time.

Kenny made a catalogue of errors IMO.

1. Adam should never have started - he cannot play as a DM, so that was left to Gerrard, which meant Gerrard's attacking threat was completely removed - in favour of Adam, who isnt fit to lace his boots. Spearing should've started to protect the back four and release Gerrard to do what he's good at - scoring and creating danger.

2. Not starting Carroll was a mistake and not bringing him on until the 80th minute, and even bigger one. Both Kuyt and Suarez drop off and go wide, which meant there were times when we simply didnt have a striker. We'd get the ball into the box and there was nobody there. Dreadful decision to leave him out.

3. Downing on the right. Why oh why, oh why, oh ****ing why? He offers nothing whatsoever on the right. At least left wing he is comfortable and is natural to him - right wing, he does sweet **** all. Pretty anonymous today.

4. Why didnt Agger start? Bizarre.

5. Why didnt Kelly stay in the side? He's been excellent and deserved to play.

6. When Henderson came on, that should've been Maxi. Henderson doesnt offer anything in a wide role and Maxi's more suited. Plus Maxi's ball retention is excellent and at the time, we couldnt string 2 passes together.

7. Why the **** do we never get bodies into the box? We're crossing to ONE player in the area, surrounded by 4 or 5 defenders. ****ing impossible task.

8. Why were we sitting off Norwich so ****ing often? Backing off, inviting them onto us. Why? No proper pressing. Absolutely ridiculous and Hodgson-esque.

All in all, that's not good enough, not by a ****ing long shot. People will talk about how many chances we created, but i'm hearing an echo here. Chances are nothing if you dont score. Simple fact is, we've played 5 league games and we've only won 2 out of them. Not beating United is forgiveable but we couldnt beat Sunderland and we couldnt beat Norwich. 9 home points out of a possible 15 is nowhere near good enough.

Based on this points return at home, we will not finish in the top four.

Agree with all that. It was ****e.

We've won fewer than half of our games overall.

We've won fewer than half of our games at home.

We've scored only three more goals than Blackburn, who've played a game less, and scored the same as Sunderland where practically every fan wants Bruce out.

The substitutions were crazy. People used to (inexplicably) go mad about Rafa's subs on the hour mark, but what I'd give to have the luxury of subs playing for 30 minutes now.

Kenny's use (or non-use for the most part) of subs is insane. Bellamy off when he was our biggest threat bar Suarez? Agger on so Jose could play left wing? And all this while Maxi is kicking his heels yet again?

Our £35m striker getting 10 minutes at the end?

How and why did Dirk Kuyt stay on for the whole game?

The middle of midfield was just completely empty yesterday. We've got the nowhere near fit enough Adam ambling about imposing nothing on the game, with Gerrard holding so he can carry his water. What the **** is that all about?

If Stewart Downing hits another pointless shot with a defender's legs about a yard in front of him, blasting it straight at the bloke, I think I'll scream. I thought he'd proved me wrong after a couple of games but that was knee-jerk. He's every bit the average player I thought he was. I've seen enough now. And he's ****ing wank on the right. Really wank. He's so passive, so one-dimensional (kick it past the full back and try and outsprint him, which he hardly ever manages). He bottles hitting shots first time, takes a touch, allows the defender to get close then he has one of his brain dead, cop out shots where he blasts it against the defender. Garbage. £20m for that.

Add all this to the fact we're completely incapable of keeping a clean sheet - Reina's having his worst season ever with us, Carragher is past it, Skrtel's not reliable, then it makes for a **** mid-table team. By the way, why isn't Agger playing?

The atmosphere was like a morgue yet again, bar the excellent Norwich fans. That doesn't help, but practically everyone in the ground can see our myriad problems and it's ****ing depressing.

The way it's going I can't see us winning at Hodgson's lot next week, then it's City and Chelsea. If we **** those three games up, as I expect us to, it's gonna be pretty bleak.

[ric.williams]

If Stewart Downing hits another pointless shot with a defender's legs about a yard in front of him, blasting it straight at the bloke, I think I'll scream

certainly guilty yesterday

he seems to shoot when he should pass and pass when he should shoot

[Roboklopp]

The depressing thing is I was predicting this- was certain of it after the chances squandered in the 1st half. Pressure is really on vs WBA now. Be just piie Bodge to take points off us too. Never hear the end of it in the press.

Anyway, have muchbigger things to worry about than footy at the mo,so not trying to worry about thistoo much. Gonna be a looong road to even where we were a couple of years back, let alone where we want to be.

[Craig_H]

And for all the plaudits Norwich got, and deserved - they were League 1 two years ago. On paper, they should be the worst side in the league. They're not actually the worst team right now, but a side which has had 2 consecutive promotions should never be competing against us at anfield. Let alone taking a point.

[Exiled_red]

And for all the plaudits Norwich got, and deserved - they were League 1 two years ago. On paper, they should be the worst side in the league. They're not actually the worst team right now, but a side which has had 2 consecutive promotions should never be competing against us at anfield. Let alone taking a point.

[Shaggy]

And for all the plaudits Norwich got, and deserved - they were League 1 two years ago. On paper, they should be the worst side in the league. They're not actually the worst team right now, but a side which has had 2 consecutive promotions should never be competing against us at anfield. Let alone taking a point.

And a good chunk of the side that went up from L1 is still there. Watched the game when I got in last night and the commentator said 7 of their players on the pitch have played non-league football.

We contrive to make every game a real contest. Wolves have been made to look utter ****e by everyone of late, except us when they had us on the back-foot for good portions of the game.

[Arn]

And for all the plaudits Norwich got, and deserved - they were League 1 two years ago. On paper, they should be the worst side in the league. They're not actually the worst team right now, but a side which has had 2 consecutive promotions should never be competing against us at anfield. Let alone taking a point.

Would we won the game if the managers swapped places? Most probably.

Kenny lost yet another tactical battle. He must start to win them.

Lambert know what he is doing. By the look of things Kenny don't.

[Exiled_red]

And a good chunk of the side that went up from L1 is still there. Watched the game when I got in last night and the commentator said 7 of their players on the pitch have played non-league football.

We contrive to make every game a real contest. Wolves have been made to look utter ****e by everyone of late, except us when they had us on the back-foot for good portions of the game.

It's been the same with Sunderland too

[Corndog]

disappointing game for obvious reasons, still aren't converting enough scoring chances and it really looks like the new players still have virtually 0 understanding between each other as teammates....

can't believe some people are blaming dalglish and Carroll though.
i think bellamy was subbed because he struggles to play 90 minutes these days. some of the sub decisions have been a bit strange imo but bottom line is there was a good 70 minutes again today were the players ON THE FIELD did not do enough to lead the game, its those players who should share the blame...some more than others...i thought bellamy and enrique were great but downing failed to impress yet again. Its very very harsh to blame Carroll seeing as he only came on 10 minutes from time, perhaps he should have put the header away or at least on target but he was far from the only player to miss a goalscoring chance today!!!

As for the Adam/ Gerrard debate...i think even with lucas playing we lack pace in the middle and this causes us problems in defence, Gerrards attacking threats were nullified, he was non-existent for large periods of the second half... i'd liek to see him in the advanced role behind carroll with suarez slightly off to a side.

On the case of Suarez, hes obviously a brilliant player, but as others have correctly pointed out, his weakness is his finishing and his heading (not helped by his stature) i also wish he would occasionally whinge less and focus on the game more, i understand hes passionate but theres time for passion after the game. some people have said we rely on him too much to do it all, i disagree i think sometimes Luis makes it harder for himself than it needs to be when he has team mates to pass to as the better option, nevertheless i continue to hope this problem will improve over time.

i also agree that it was a mistake selling Merieles, he is quite fast and his pace could have been used in the centre for games like these.
There are still questions marks over Carragher and Skrtel at the back but imo kenny had no other option, he obviously doesn't think Coates is ready enough yet (perhaps he has been struggling with the language?) and Agger is still just coming back from injury.

The lack of understanding between some of the new players does not seem to be getting any better, again we saw plenty of stray passes or passes that were not anticipated....Until that problem gets fixed i can't see an end to our slim goalscoring stats.

[el matador]

maybe kenny didnt buy carroll and he was a commolli signing. hence kennys reluctance to use him same goes for henderson.

full credit to paul lambert because they out thought and outfought us in te second half. they outplayed us in the second too.

[Tee]

What game was everyone watching? FFS if we had put away a couple of those early chances there would be no discussions about Kenny. ****ing hell we are a fickle bunch.

Right now I am less concerned about Kenny and more about 1) Downings form, 2) Suarez's inability to finish fairly straightforward chances, 3) Our lack of DM cover for Lucas (Spearing? ).

Success depends on such fine margins and if for a bit of bad luck and poor finishing we could easily, and I mean easily, have had six points from the last 2 games.