Liverpool FC vs Chelsea FC (A) - post-match thread

[Corndog]

To be fair, i wouldnt call what we played at Chelsea a 'standard' and static 442. What played such a role in us winning, was the fluidity of the system and the ability of Bellamy, Suarez, Maxi & Kuyt to produce intelligent movement and switch positions from time to time.

EDIT - in actual fact, it wasnt 442 at all

It was 4231

Pepe
Johnson Agger Skrtel Enrique
Lucas Adam
Kuyt Maxi Bellamy
Suarez

I was using the "4-4-2 doesn't work" argument as an example of one of the dominant theories about a performed weakness of the teams.

Personally I don't think the formation whether it is 4-4-2 or 4-3-2-1 matters because as you point out the team is most effective when very fluid with their positions, it's the players that make the difference not the formation.

[little dave hedgehog]

i liked what kenny said about the formation after he joined. it was something like "people talk too much about the formation. it's relevant, but the important thing is the performance of the players." i think that's fair.

[Corndog]

i liked what kenny said about the formation after he joined. it was something like "people talk too much about the formation. it's relevant, but the important thing is the performance of the players." i think that's fair.

exactly what I was trying to say

[Lecter]

Thanks dww. I started posting something along those lines but then realised I couldn't remember the details of it all, especially the substitutions.

Too often people find things to fit the theory, ignoring all the other factors that don't fit. They don't even dismiss them, they just miss them out completely.

It gets my goat.

[Arn]

To be fair, i wouldnt call what we played at Chelsea a 'standard' and static 442. What played such a role in us winning, was the fluidity of the system and the ability of Bellamy, Suarez, Maxi & Kuyt to produce intelligent movement and switch positions from time to time.

EDIT - in actual fact, it wasnt 442 at all

It was 4231

Pepe
Johnson Agger Skrtel Enrique
Lucas Adam
Kuyt Maxi Bellamy
Suarez

Our two best games this season we have played 4-2-3-1. So far this season 4-4-2 hasn't worked. I will change my mind that 4-4-2 work when it do.

[BobTheCharmer]

Our two best games this season we have played 4-2-3-1. So far this season 4-4-2 hasn't worked. I will change my mind that 4-4-2 work when it do.

****ing hell its all down to the formation. christ. what about when we failed to win under rafa playing that system? that'll be down to the players not performing yet when we play a strict 442 and beat bolton thats good yet if we draw with swansea its ****, how about the players having an off day and not playing to their potential. this has been an enjoyable season so far, long may it continue.

[Lecter]

****ing hell its all down to the formation. christ. what about when we failed to win under rafa playing that system? that'll be down to the players not performing yet when we play a strict 442 and beat bolton thats good yet if we draw with swansea its ****, how about the players having an off day and not playing to their potential. this has been an enjoyable season so far, long may it continue.

Exactly the 4-2-3-1 system didnt help Rafa beat lesser teams in the league

Fact of the matter is no matter what system you employ you have to A) create chances and B) put those chances away

Under Rafa we struggled at times with creating chances against lesser teams, under Kenny we have struggled to convert those chances that we have created

Against Chelsea we probably created far less chances than we did in any of the Norwich, Stoke & Swansea games and yet we took those chances and won

Shankly had it right "Football is a simple game complicated by fools"

[The_weatherman]

I was using the "4-4-2 doesn't work" argument as an example of one of the dominant theories about a performed weakness of the teams.

Personally I don't think the formation whether it is 4-4-2 or 4-3-2-1 matters because as you point out the team is most effective when very fluid with their positions, it's the players that make the difference not the formation.

i liked what kenny said about the formation after he joined. it was something like "people talk too much about the formation. it's relevant, but the important thing is the performance of the players." i think that's fair.

But sometimes it matters where you put the players, in relation to performance. To get the best out of Gerrard you put him behind the striker, thus making the formation 4-4-1-1, if you have three players in the same line as him you are probably lining up with a 4-2-3-1. I think formations at least help in understanding how the team and the players are set up for the match.

Formations can then change during the game, and players can switch positions. Our 4-4-2 (4-4-1-1) is different to the one Tottenham play, don't think theirs changes much, their players are very well suited to that formation and it offers direct play.

Rafa's formation offered compact play and made it easy applying pressure to on the opponet. I'm not sure about Kenny's formation but seems to be very fluid and offering movement in the final third, but is vulnerable to leaving space in the middle.

IMO

[Lecter]

But sometimes it matters where you put the players, in relation to performance. To get the best out of Gerrard you put him behind the striker, thus making the formation 4-4-1-1, if you have three players in the same line as him you are probably lining up with a 4-2-3-1. I think formations at least help in understanding how the team and the players are set up for the match.

Formations can then change during the game, and players can switch positions. Our 4-4-2 (4-4-1-1) is different to the one Tottenham play, don't think theirs changes much, their players are very well suited to that formation and it offers direct play.

Rafa's formation offered compact play and made it easy applying pressure to on the opponet. I'm not sure about Kenny's formation but seems to be very fluid and offering movement in the final third, but is vulnerable to leaving space in the middle.

IMO

Havent we got one of the best defensive records in the league???

[The_weatherman]

Havent we got one of the best defensive records in the league???

We do, but I thought this was apparent, specially in the early days and when Lucas isn't playing. We also seem to give the opposition considerable possession.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not critising anyone, maybe in order to achieve one aim (fluid movement) we have to abandon something else (compact midfield).

[Lecter]

We do, but I thought this was apparent, specially in the early days and when Lucas isn't playing. We also seem to give the opposition considerable possession.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not critising anyone, maybe in order to achieve one aim (fluid movement) we have to abandon something else (compact midfield).

There has to be a trade off

More attacking you are the more open you will be (unless you have world class players in EVERY position)

[RedReet]

Does anyone else think that Suarez might have been having a bit of trouble with his back on Sunday? I know he’s not lightening quick, but there were a few times when he had space to run into and he was either caught very easily or he turned back looking for support. I’m probably just making excuses because we expect him to be MOTM every game, but he definitely wasn’t at his best.

[Assassin]

Does anyone else think that Suarez might have been having a bit of trouble with his back on Sunday? I know he’s not lightening quick, but there were a few times when he had space to run into and he was either caught very easily or he turned back looking for support. I’m probably just making excuses because we expect him to be MOTM every game, but he definitely wasn’t at his best.

Two words

Jet lag

[Icon]

One actually -

Desynchronosis...

[cream]

We do, but I thought this was apparent, specially in the early days and when Lucas isn't playing. We also seem to give the opposition considerable possession.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not critising anyone, maybe in order to achieve one aim (fluid movement) we have to abandon something else (compact midfield).

We need to learn to keep the ball better.