Mark Gonzalez

[Craig_H]

I'm not happy with the "that's what you get if you allocate 10 milllion for 2 wingers" comment and the "I'd rather we bought a 15 million pound player".

During silly season many sensible lads like Tom and Lecter repeated time after time that Rafa doesn't work like that. He doesn't buy 15 million pound superstars, the big signings he has made (Reina, Alonso, Kuyt) have not been superstars but up and coming players with hunger and desire.
I think this is why Rafa doesn't go for big stars. Apart from their big egos there is also the problem that sometimes a big player arrives for a big fee and think they've an automatic right to a first team place, won't work with the rotation policy and settle into a comfort zone.
Up and coming players have a hunger to prove themselves as a super-star. That's the kind of player Wenger has always bought and I think Rafa has a similar philosophy.

As for Gonzalez, maybe someone knocked some sense into him
My tuppence worth.

That's all well and good, but the sides that win titles TEND to have 'big stars' in them. Call them that if you like. I'll go with 'top class players'.

Yes, i know Rafa won La Liga with his methods, which was a great achievement, but in the PREMIERSHIP a team of pretty decent workers has never won the title.

I'm not dismissing his style or methods, i'm just saying that you CAN have the characteristics he wants, AND top drawer ability in the same player.

And as Arsenal have proven, you dont always need to spend record-breaking money to do it.

With regards to wingers, Robbem and Ronaldo cost what, £12m or so each?

Why cant we sign someone of that class for the wings? I dont actually care what they cost, i just was top quality. The problem is, that *usually* costs a few bob.

[Red Chilli]

And as Arsenal have proven, you dont always need to spend record-breaking money to do it.

Doesn't this contradict what you've said? I compared Rafa's transfer philosophy to Wenger's because I think they're similar. The last Arsenal championship winning side (the unbeatables) didn't have any huge signings in it. I think Henry at 10 million (a snip) was the most expensive.

[Craig_H]

Doesn't this contradict what you've said? I compared Rafa's transfer philosophy to Wenger's because I think they're similar. The last Arsenal championship winning side (the unbeatables) didn't have any huge signings in it. I think Henry at 10 million (a snip) was the most expensive.

Not really, as i didnt specifically say you HAD to spend big to get good players, i just said your chances of getting good players SHOULD be increased if you're spending more, unless of course you're a complete tool

I'd love it if Rafa pulled out a world class winger for £7m, but it seems unlikely.

Main point being, if it proves impossible, let's just forego the 2 signings that cost say £13m for the pair, and spend it all on one top player.

[Red Chilli]

OK I see what you're saying

But if anyone is gets frustrated that Rafa doesn't make big money signings then they need to relax a bit because Rafa will always stick to his methods.

I think Gonzalez will turn it round when he settles in. Pennant is another story but he deserves a bit of time.

[Craig_H]

Dont get me wrong, i'm not judging either of them now, they both need time.

But the opening few months are looking disappointingly familiar.

[Kopite75]

I think we will see a different Gonzo in the 2n half of the season (or at least I am hoping). He has had a tough time of it with injury and a virus which play on his fitness and his ability to settle both within the team and within the community. He is only 21 so we may not see the best of him until next season. I think he is worth it he has the ability just needs more time

[MrMichael]

I think we will see a different Gonzo in the 2n half of the season (or at least I am hoping). He has had a tough time of it with injury and a virus which play on his fitness and his ability to settle both within the team and within the community. He is only 21 so we may not see the best of him until next season. I think he is worth it he has the ability just needs more time

Totally agree with that

[Fiddy]

[QUOTE=DJS]Not really, as i didnt specifically say you HAD to spend big to get good players, i just said your chances of getting good players SHOULD be increased if you're spending more, unless of course you're a complete tool

QUOTE]

Someone's been playing too much Football Manager. And talking about splashing out big on players whilst mentioning Arsenal in the same post is always going to be contradictory...they're in exactly the same realm as us with regards to spending. Manure & Chelski are out there on their own, and look at how much they spent on Ballack & Shevchenko? Ballack has been average and Shevchenko has been poor. Ok they've only just got here but by the same token you can't have a go at the likes of Aurelio and Gonzalez, especially seeing as they cost a fraction of the money.

Or would people rather we were like Newcastle, with a similar budget but we just decide to blow it all on a couple of strikers who proceed to get injured, meaning that not only can the team not defend in the first place but can't score either? That policy has really got them far recently hasn't it.

Rafa is building us the same way Wenger built Arsenal - getting good young foreigners in while trying to develop what's already at the club too, buying c. £5m players for the squad, moulding the first team around several key players and attempting to improve that with c. £10m buys like Alonso & Kuyt. Personally I'm reluctant to see us spend any more than £15m on a player from outside the Prem, because arguably their chances of making it are no better than someone who comes for much less. How much did we spend on Momo, £4m? How much did Spurs spend on Zokora, double that, and who looks better? I'm no Pennant fan but I can see what Rafa was trying to do there, even if he did overpay. Still, I thought the same about Crouch and he's slowly looking more worth that £7m...and at the end of the day these are younger players who should only improve, and if they don't as someone else said, Rafa will have no problem getting rid.

Spending more on players doesn't guarantee success, it just means you'll fail bigger if they don't work out. And Chelski are an exception because they can just throw money at whoever and write off their losses.

People moaned last season because our squad wasn't big/good enough and we got stretched with injuries - now we've got that and they're still moaning. If people want Football Manager style buying, they might have a chance of it next year, especially if the club gets investment, because in theory by then Rafa should only need players to come straight in and improve the first team. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Craig_H]

Didnt read all that, but i think i made my point perfectly clear.

Obviously if you get good players cheap, then do it. But generally, your chances of signing a top player are usually increased if you're spending more. That's how it works, because the best usually cost.

I'd love to sign great players cheap, but thus far, Speedy and Pennant dont look good enough. Early doors yes, and i'm prepared to give them time, but in discussions about how they're looking, the truth is they dont look upto it yet.

[REDSCOUSER]

Gonzos shiner was done by a senior player at the club, he was not injured but more like punished. The club did not want the news to go public so they fabricated it that he's injured .

[Red_Polo]

I think so far Pennant has been the biggest disappointment, he has put in several very poor performances for us. Speedy is not quite so disappointing because the league is new to him, he's had less game time, and had injury to deal with. Looking to the future though who knows how good/bad they could prove to be for us, it's still early days for both of them.

Speedy looked like he was trying to hard when he came on again today. He is trying to play outside of himself when he just needs to relax and play his own game. We've seen him put in some nice crosses and deliver some good corners but I'm really hoping to see him take people on and beat them more than anything.

Pennant had the same problem as Speedy but I feel he has shaken the nerves off now, and it's more of a case of developing some understanding with his team-mates. I think as he plays more games we will see his confidence grow and the indecision that hampers him at times will leave his game. He really needs to work on his upper body strength though, he gets knocked off the ball too easily.

[Fiddy]

Didnt read all that, but i think i made my point perfectly clear.

Obviously if you get good players cheap, then do it. But generally, your chances of signing a top player are usually increased if you're spending more. That's how it works, because the best usually cost.

I'd love to sign great players cheap, but thus far, Speedy and Pennant dont look good enough. Early doors yes, and i'm prepared to give them time, but in discussions about how they're looking, the truth is they dont look upto it yet.

Maybe you should bother to take the time to read my point about Ballack & Shevchenko then

[Craig_H]

Very selective examples. Either Chelsea or Man Utd, who you acknowledge are the biggest spenders, are going to win the title...

See a correlation?

[Marky]

Didnt read all that, but i think i made my point perfectly clear.

Obviously if you get good players cheap, then do it. But generally, your chances of signing a top player are usually increased if you're spending more. That's how it works, because the best usually cost.

I'd love to sign great players cheap, but thus far, Speedy and Pennant dont look good enough. Early doors yes, and i'm prepared to give them time, but in discussions about how they're looking, the truth is they dont look upto it yet.

I'm sure there most grateful DJ.

[Craig_H]

I'm very there most grateful DJ.

Bonjour.

Me comprendez Englais.

Danke schon.