Liverpool v Arsenal Post-Match Thread

[Tee]

Top 4 finish now seems highly unlikely, and as we are already in Europe next season should we maybe give some of the reserve and youth prospects a chance to impress? I am thinking Coates, Sterling and possibly Suso.

[danperkins]

I dont think it is the reaction to todays defeat alone Craig. It is primarily a reaction to the fact that we have got 10 points in the last 10 premier league games. Our style of play has not been as impressive as today for a majority of those games also.

I really dont think it is as simple as get a top class striker and we will be alright. We may get 4th with that but I am not sure the current squad is technically equipped and have the mentality to win the league. And I am also not sure if Arsenal and Chelsea are going to struggle like this next season.

We cannot simply state that a top class striker would have converted all of the missed chances and we would be way ahead. There are too many complicated variables and interactions. What if he gets injured.

The midfield plus strikers which started today barely scored 15 goals in the premier league this season. There is no indication for some of them from their history if they will improve upon their goal scoring tally. So why are we surprised that we lost. A top quality striker will help us paper over the cracks.
Also the chance of us signing a top quality striker who goes on to have a season like VP is very very small.

NOTE - The fact that I disagree with Craig, Lecter, DM and some of the positive posts in this thread does not mean I agree with phil neal and others who have compared Kenny with the Bodge.

Kenny is on a different galaxy compared to Bodge with respect to management. Anyone who watches the game and observes our style of play will know that.

I genuinely believe Kenny knows the right style of play , the right balance between attack and defense to win us the league. Some of the football we played end of last season was sublime.I also believe in his man management skills.

However I do not trust his or our entire clubs scouting acumen. We have been profligate in spending and I really don't see the summer signings fitting with Kenny's style of play.

[Mattshark]

We need all That do we Mattshark? After bossing virtually every team in the league at least once this season & that includes the much vaunted Arsenal today with what virtually amounted to our reserve midfield playing? Maybe long term regarding the personnel required for us to finally Win the damn league we do mate but to get in the CL short term? No sorry I Don't agree mate - This season thus far & a few games last year under Kenny? In terms of possession, attacks, shots, woodwork etc? We've battered virtually every side we've played at least once & sometimes twice in All respects bar scoreline - That indicates? The main, enduring & Only current problem we have? Is scoring bloody goals!!!

Maybe longer term yes in terms of becoming perennial challengers for the League Title as we once were? Then perhaps you have a point & Yes? We might Just need more backup & deeper cover to play different formations but given how we've played at times this season & all those bloody draws? Most especially at Home? Are you really saying if Van Persie, Balotelli the Old Torres or even Michael Owen/Robbie Fowler in their prime were bolted on to our current side? That we wouldn't be at least comfortably in the Top 4 & at most? In the title fight with the Manchester Clubs? I think either of those scenarios would apply to us were we to have good finishers right now & by a good distance to. It's so glaringly obvious & Has been for so long? It shouldn't even Need mentioning now but there you go...........................

Just to reiterate? We really Need bloody Finishers!!! Nothing else, nothing more, nothing less. That is All we need right now. It's All we've needed since last Summer's spree finished & even before to back up the one we lost last January. Simple enough problem - The answer's a Bit more difficult or so it seems thus far...................

NB BTW Mattshark? Henderson & Downing have created a Lot of chances at times this season - It's not there fault if the forward line are more impotent than a castrate in a brothel. Had all those chances been put away? I doubt you'd be complaining & anyway? Henderson created our goal today so showed he can create when needed. Remember him making one for Gerrard against Newcastle as well. Downing in particular's been unlucky in that a Lot of the chances he's created? Have been saved by GK's in the final minutes of half those bloody Home Draws IIRR. A few inches or slower reactions by Keeper's either way? And we'd be singing a different song re' Downing who I think has been very unlucky at times with us.............

Yes we do and I don't rate Arsenal's midfield either. Don't have the energy to go all through this now, but I think our chance creation is a fallacy and we don't create particularly good chances.

Nor do I think 2 wins in 10 and such a low scoring rate are purely down to not having someone to just finish? We create half chances, we create low percentage chances. We are were we are on the merit of our limited attacking style and threat.

I also think that with more intelligent use of our transfer funds we could have gotten 4th easily.

[MrMichael]

Top 4 finish now seems highly unlikely, and as we are already in Europe next season should we maybe give some of the reserve and youth prospects a chance to impress? I am thinking Coates, Sterling and possibly Suso.

Yup, I'd really like us to do that. Apart from the results obviously, one of the most positive things about the end of last season was the game time and performances of Robinson, Flannagan and Kelly when they were given opportunities; I'm not sure how many of the ressies are really ready for the 1st team yet, but I don't see the harm at all in giving some of them an opportunity.

[Mostar]

I do agree that a good finisher will pull us up the table. No doubt about that. With a good finisher we maybe in the mix for 3rd and 4th also. But I think that is where this team will hit the ceiling.

I don't see the basis for a team which will challenge for the league in this teams attacking players. I think we will have to go one more round of purchasing or hopefully there are some real gems in our youth team who can step up to that level in order for us to compete at the highest level.

Thank you Mostar.

I noticed that your work has been under-appreciated in this thread. Thanks for the videos and gifs

Cheers Peekay

[Craig_H]

Top 4 finish now seems highly unlikely, and as we are already in Europe next season should we maybe give some of the reserve and youth prospects a chance to impress? I am thinking Coates, Sterling and possibly Suso.

Top four highly unlikely but still mathematically possible. I wouldnt be chucking the towel in or swapping kids into the team while it's still a possibility.

[Mostar]

I seriously don't understand this "our midfield is weak" argument. We have just bossed Arsenal (one of the top teams in the PL) around for 98 minutes, with our 2 best midfielders out injured, and we have a weak midfield?? We are controlling most games we play apart from the obvious 2-3 teams, and it's the midfield that is the point of blame?

Besides Adam, I think we have a very good midfield. Gerrard is world class, Lucas have turned himself in to a world class midfielder, Henderson have played well over the season (and very well today), Spearing although not quite there to be a starter does decent as a squad player and we have a few good looking prospects.

Our main problem is further up the pitch, where our wingers/IF are not scoring enough and our strikers are quilty of the very same.

We have the foundation for a top-4 challenging team, we just need some better players up front that scores goals. Suarez, Carroll, Kuyt and Downing are just to ineffective. Only player that have been consistently effective is Bellamy and he can't play all the games we need him to unfortunately. Give me a striker and a better winger and I think we are looking good.

The problem is that Adam plays every week (he was one of our worst players today especially in the areas of corners and free kick delivery, which was the main reason why we got him in the first place), Stevie's injury problems are compounding, Lucas is only coming back from serious knee injury and may never be the same player (or it could take long, long time till he comes back to the level he played at before the injury), Jay is perfect cover for Lucas but he is only a cover and will never be a starter and Henderson until today and just few other games never really played as CM (disagree about Hendo playing well over the season but I did pick him in my top 3 today).

The bottom line is we never have our best players available at the same time and as result our "squad" players are the ones stepping up who in fairness are not good enough to play not stop, which is exactly what is happening.

In addition, imo we need imo 2 extra mid (one to replace Raul's exit which never happened last year) and we need an attacking mid (like Mata for example) that has goals in him and can create which we miss terribly this season.

[peekay]

Indeed, good post. Most of our signings have been particularly unimaginative, perhaps with Bellamy excepted (and Coates, though we've not seen much of him). I would say though that these things can take time, while we turned up the Arbeloas and Hyppias in the past, we also signed the likes of Josemi, Kronkamp, Nunez, Gonzalez etc etc. However its totally true that even without CL footy we can still find good buys without spunking untold millions on more Downings.

I can hardly believe I'm saying this, but look at Newcastle. Ba, Tiote, Cabaye... not the most amazing players in the world ever, but for the money they've been a thousand times better purchases than some of the ones we've made. Hopefully though that will start to change in the upcoming windows... it needs to.

Agree 100%. That is why a good scouting department and an eye for talent is half the battle. I am a bit afraid Kenny will fall into the vicious cycle which all LFC managers fall into. Mediocre buys lead to poor performances. Poor performances lead to pressure on manager to justify the outlay. Manager ends up continuously playing the poor performers.

If Henderson, Adam, Downing continuously play next season, there is bound to be similar threads as between the three of the them I don't see more than 10 goals scored in the league. That is going to place some serious pressure on the other 2 attackers ( assuming Lucas is the other midfielder).

[Icon]

An old friend of mine was gloating about the result in fbook.
When we used to hang out and drink together he was a Liverpool supporter.
I asked him what the hell was going on and he said
"that was 20 years ago, I now go to games with my Dad at Arsenal. It's all a bit different when you see it for real"

WTF???

He is nobody to me now...

[BG1973]

but he's proved value at 8m, yes?

He's been average at best since October. God only knows what happened to those famous dead balls! Poor decision maker in final third, limited vision.

Henderson was good today I thought.

I thought we were great first half, okay second. We had more penetration than recent games. Shame were pathetic in front of goal. For all suarez's trickery what is point of him if he doesn't do his primary job well enough? Not convinced by him. A non goal scoring goal scorer, a Ferrari with a mini metro engine.

Arsenal got the hollow victory today because that team is incredibly average. Wenger has a huge job on his hands. Still performing better than us unfortunately.

[Lecter]

Penalty takers in matches this season (excluding penalty shoot outs)

..........Taken...Scored...Missed
Gerrard...3...........3...........0
Adam.....2...........1...........1
Suarez...2...........0............2
Kuyt......2...........0............2
Carroll....1...........0............1

You can't really imagine anyone beyond those players taking them (aside from shoot outs obviously )

Shocking

We should be scoring much more than this

I reckon we've lost at least 5 points through missed pens

Shocking!!

[Rich]

Should fine the swines for missing!

[Lecter]

Nope, we had one he made himself, the one were he hit the post from a tight angle and one where he was rather wider but isolated that went into the side netting.

It was no tighter an angle than Van Persie scored from

Suarez and many others are missing clear cut chances week in week out

Chances that players like Rush, Fowler, Owen, Torres (the version two years ago) and Van Persie snaffle like there is no tomorrow

I've no problems with Suarez missing chances were hes dribbled around half a dozen players but when he misses clear cut chances like yesterday (and others) then there are no excuses

We've hit the woodwork with very easy chances we should be making the keeper work not missing the target

We've hit the post far too many times and I watched the match with a blue nose yesterday and he said that next year we will probably find that those chance were we hit the post would probably go in off the post

Frankly I'd rather buy a forward who works the keeper / sticks the ball away when we get these clear cut chances I wouldnt rely on Suarez and Carroll taking them

[Lecter]

He's been average at best since October. God only knows what happened to those famous dead balls! Poor decision maker in final third, limited vision.

Henderson was good today I thought.

I thought we were great first half, okay second. We had more penetration than recent games. Shame were pathetic in front of goal. For all suarez's trickery what is point of him if he doesn't do his primary job well enough? Not convinced by him. A non goal scoring goal scorer, a Ferrari with a mini metro engine.

Arsenal got the hollow victory today because that team is incredibly average. Wenger has a huge job on his hands. Still performing better than us unfortunately.

Adams delivery from set pieces have been poor and must say I've been disappointed wuth them

For all Adam being so **** hes still one of our top assisters

[Lecter]

But is a 25 yard shot with a clear line to the keeper really that good a chance? Do free headers count if the cross is a bit too high as well? Does very close to goal account for angle or real difficulty of chance?

You are making excuses

The FACT is we have missed EASY chances in virtually EVERY game this season

Chances that decent finishers would take

Its absolute nonsense to suggest otherwise

Suarez chance were he hit the post was an EASY chance the angle wasnt acute he had as much area as Van Persie did to hit into

Van Persie scored his clear cut chance, Suarez didnt