FA Cup Final Post Match

[Kenneth]

Roy was the epitome of incompetence. There's absolutely no comparisons to be made. Style of play, surrendering possession and players hating him. Then I'm not even talking about both of their records over the years.

Did the players hate him? He didn't get on with Agger, but apart from that...

[Icon]

We'll find out if he comes back...

[Muddled]

he bought luis garcia and xabi alonso for approx £17m

kenny has bought suarez, carroll, adam, downing, henderson, coates, enrique for well over £100m.

on the scale of **** ups its incomparable.

But it's not, it's the first season during which Rafa was implementing his vision and his ideas. We afforded Rafa more time, why not Kenny?

What if Henderson, Carroll and Suarez play as a unit that starts clicking and we regain some cash back from the sales of Downing and Adam? It doesn't look as much of a **** up then.

This ignoring the fact we were on sounder footings when Rafa took over, to the position we were in when Kenny took over.

[el matador]

believe me, i understand wanting to see him off. i'm struggling with it myself, but he may be able to turn it around with a new ceo/dof.

dave... hes had a full season with a team of his choice that has been very expensively assembled and its been a total arsehole of a year.

The footballs been brilliant in spurts but this is a results business and they have definitely not been good enough.

I think tactically too kennys been shown up a few times and although as a team we didnt do too much wrong against chelsea our work when we dont have the ball isnt up to scratch. we dont press enough, when we do its for a one minute burst or something and its not sustained.

its all just too muddled up. i dont see any consistency or any vision. Enrique is still making the same mistakes he's been making all season. Why hasnt anyone told him how to play ? Charlie adam was still trying to be 'the man' right up until he got injured. FFS whats all that about. Someone's got to tell him to keep it simple but he carried on doing exactly what he was which is constantly giving the ball away by trying stupid things.

Rafa would have deconstructed each players game individually and told them where they have to improve. to me it doesnt look like kennys done that.

[Fredo]

dave... hes had a full season with a team of his choice that has been very expensively assembled and its been a total arsehole of a year.

The footballs been brilliant in spurts but this is a results business and they have definitely not been good enough.

I think tactically too kennys been shown up a few times and although as a team we didnt do too much wrong against chelsea our work when we dont have the ball isnt up to scratch. we dont press enough, when we do its for a one minute burst or something and its not sustained.

its all just too muddled up. i dont see any consistency or any vision. Enrique is still making the same mistakes he's been making all season. Why hasnt anyone told him how to play ? Charlie adam was still trying to be 'the man' right up until he got injured. FFS whats all that about. Someone's got to tell him to keep it simple but he carried on doing exactly what he was which is constantly giving the ball away by trying stupid things.

Rafa would have deconstructed each players game individually and told them where they have to improve. to me it doesnt look like kennys done that.

Those are the same tactics which Kenny used when we were an all conquering side in the 80's. Nothing wrong with that and it's not muddled. Makes it harder for the players to get used to them though.

I think it's a good thing, it's flexible and not rigid.

[vonk]

Another ****ing rafa thread. Rafa had 6 years and we finished 7th. He's not coming back. Get over it.

[Daniel 7]

Another ****ing rafa thread. Rafa had 6 years and we finished 7th. He's not coming back. Get over it.

Woooooooosh

[el matador]

But it's not, it's the first season during which Rafa was implementing his vision and his ideas. We afforded Rafa more time, why not Kenny?

What if Henderson, Carroll and Suarez play as a unit that starts clicking and we regain some cash back from the sales of Downing and Adam? It doesn't look as much of a **** up then.

This ignoring the fact we were on sounder footings when Rafa took over, to the position we were in when Kenny took over.

two main reasons mate.

1. rafa performed a miracle when he won the champions league with that ****e squad and for that he will always be like a demi-god to liverpool fans.

2. he started that season with only two of his own players garcia and alonso. You cannot compare the squad that rafa inherited to the one that kenny started with this season because kenny signed five or six of them. reina, agger, johnson, skrtel, carra, gerrard, lucas, kuyt and maxi were already there and lets be honest they're not a bad start are they.

contrast that with what rafa inherited dudek, traore, biscan, cisse, smicer, riise, finnan, henchoz, hyypia, murphy, owen (who ****ed off anyway), hamann and of course gerrard and carragher. Of that lot only finnan, hyypia and hamann would get anywhere near the current squad.

you simply cannot compare what rafa did in his first season to what kenny did because kenny bought his own players and rafa inherited a load of crap

[el matador]

Those are the same tactics which Kenny used when we were an all conquering side in the 80's. Nothing wrong with that and it's not muddled. Makes it harder for the players to get used to them though.

I think it's a good thing, it's flexible and not rigid.

mate our players arent of the same intelligence and definitely not ability as say barnes, beardo, aldridge and co.

They were the best in the league and now its like buying bale, silva and RVP.

If we had those three im sure we would have qualified for the CL. But we dont have the finances to compete for the very best players in the world so we have to buy players who arent top draw but who potentially could still be very good.

When you dont buy the best, you have to be tactically excellent. perhaps that could be where kenny fails and its not just been the players who get confused on the pitch. It confuses the hell out of me.

[Imy]

Those are the same tactics which Kenny used when we were an all conquering side in the 80's. Nothing wrong with that and it's not muddled. Makes it harder for the players to get used to them though.

I think it's a good thing, it's flexible and not rigid.

We had a fantastic team, with world class players in the 80's a bunch of guys that could execute any plan/tactic.

Compare that with the donkeys currently representing us?

**** season, i blame the players above the manager - the only problem is its 99% of the players the manager has bought in that have been the problem.

[Muddled]

two main reasons mate.

1. rafa performed a miracle when he won the champions league with that ****e squad and for that he will always be like a demi-god to liverpool fans.

2. he started that season with only two of his own players garcia and alonso. You cannot compare the squad that rafa inherited to the one that kenny started with this season because kenny signed five or six of them. reina, agger, johnson, skrtel, carra, gerrard, lucas, kuyt and maxi were already there and lets be honest they're not a bad start are they.

contrast that with what rafa inherited dudek, traore, biscan, cisse, smicer, riise, finnan, henchoz, hyypia, murphy, owen (who ****ed off anyway), hamann and of course gerrard and carragher. Of that lot only finnan, hyypia and hamann would get anywhere near the current squad.

you simply cannot compare what rafa did in his first season to what kenny did because kenny bought his own players and rafa inherited a load of crap

Kenny joined six months after we had nearly entered administration and 18 months after we'd fallen from the top four, during a time when there was poison behind scenes and inherited players that had been drilled on defending two banks of four, ten yards from each other.

Yes, I'd agree, he took over a team whose back line was in great shape and had the makings of a spine, but it's not as great a picture as you are making out. It's most certainly not a case of Rafa taking over **** players and Kenny taking over world class players - there is a lot of grey. Rafa had a decent goalkeeper (granted prone to lapses of concentration), a decent back four and a solid central midfield - Kenny had the former, but certainly not the latter.

[el matador]

Kenny joined six months after we had nearly entered administration and 18 months after we'd fallen from the top four, during a time when there was poison behind scenes and inherited players that had been drilled on defending two banks of four, ten yards from each other.

Yes, I'd agree, he took over a team whose back line was in great shape and had the makings of a spine, but it's not as great a picture as you are making out. It's most certainly not a case of Rafa taking over **** players and Kenny taking over world class players - there is a lot of grey. Rafa had a decent goalkeeper (granted prone to lapses of concentration), a decent back four and a solid central midfield - Kenny had the former, but certainly not the latter.

when kenny took over the club was already on the road to recovery. FSG had bought the club from hicks and gillette and we had gotten rid of hodgson. So really kenny didnt have the stuff hanging over him that hodgson did.

For me it comes down to the fact that rafa was using someone elses players to try and get his ideas across and kenny was using mostly his players to try and implement his philosophy.

Really kenny shouldnt have any excuses for this season because ownership structure was much more settled, we invested heavily into the squad and as kenny confirmed every player we bought kenny wanted.

For me kenny's a legend and always will be but hes ****ed this season up badly and so he's got to go.

The bigger question is who do FSG turn to for impartial advice ? Who is out there who could advise them on which decisions to make for the better of the club. If kenny wasnt manager it would obviously be him but if FSG want info on a new manager who out there would give some good ideas because im certain they dont have any of their own.

You could speak to former players but most of them will be loyal to kenny. Other people in the game will have a vested interest in their own clubs. People within the club like ayre wont speak against kenny either.

If you were FSG who would you ask about football matters ? I cant think of anyone.

[rodo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8Vg3_gv3fSw

[Muddled]

when kenny took over the club was already on the road to recovery. FSG had bought the club from hicks and gillette and we had gotten rid of hodgson. So really kenny didnt have the stuff hanging over him that hodgson did.

The club was on the road to recovery, but the damage had been done. You can't honestly say Kenny had taken over a team who had just finished fourth and had the draw of the Champions League? Yes, Kenny took over a club that now appeared to be in a sound position, but he needed to address the team and how it was set up.

For me it comes down to the fact that rafa was using someone elses players to try and get his ideas across and kenny was using mostly his players to try and implement his philosophy.

But the players you listed weren't bought by Kenny? You mentioned "Reina, Agger, Johnson, Skrtel, Carragher, Gerrard, Lucas, Kuyt and Maxi were already there and lets be honest they're not a bad start are they". You can't say Rafa had to rebuild and Kenny didn't. Yes, compare transfers but you can't contradict yourself by saying Rafa had no-one and Kenny had everyone.

Really kenny shouldnt have any excuses for this season because ownership structure was much more settled, we invested heavily into the squad and as kenny confirmed every player we bought kenny wanted.

I think the players we bought aren't without fault, but I do think a 50% success rate isn't *that* bad. I can see the rationale behing them all, but they haven't worked out, but let's look how he addresses it in the summer. We said Rafa was great because he recognised his mistakes, I wonder if Kenny will do the same this time around if he is afforded the time, obv.

For me kenny's a legend and always will be but hes ****ed this season up badly and so he's got to go.

I appreciate it's your opinion and I can understand why you would think that, but I'm firmly on the side of retaining Kenny for atleast another year.

The bigger question is who do FSG turn to for impartial advice ? Who is out there who could advise them on which decisions to make for the better of the club. If kenny wasnt manager it would obviously be him but if FSG want info on a new manager who out there would give some good ideas because im certain they dont have any of their own.

You could speak to former players but most of them will be loyal to kenny. Other people in the game will have a vested interest in their own clubs. People within the club like ayre wont speak against kenny either.

If you were FSG who would you ask about football matters ? I cant think of anyone.

It's a good question and one I couldn't answer. I can see why they want the Director of Football link, but they need to take their time making their next appointment and ensure they get it right.

[el matador]

who would you rather inherit dudek, biscan, traore, hyypia, hamman and co or agger, skrtel, reina, johnson and lucas, kuyt and maxi.

again mate kenny inherited a much better squad all round who badly underperformed under hodgson to the load of crap that benitez inherited from houllier.

of course this is all in my humble opinion mate

but i wonder who will be advising FSG ?