Our style of play

[spud_gun]

The knock on effects of all of the injuries are that the machine is missing too many pieces, there is then an over reliance on certain players in other areas and the entire thing is mis firing. We are well drilled typically, but not with so many key players missing. Imagine Fabinho back in Midfield. Hendo sets the tempo and is doing a great job at the back but to such a cost for the midfield.

The solutions right now are not obvious as we keep losing more and more players to inujury. Since we beat Spurs just 6 days ago we have lost Matip, Mane and Alisson. Its just not sustainable changing line up so often.

Look at our strongest team in their best postions and look at tonight. Imagine the bench if these guys were all fit.

--------------------------------------Alisson----------------------------------------------

Trent----------------Gomez-------------------------Van Dijk---------------------Robbo

------------------------------------Fabinho-----------------------------------------------

-------------Hendo-------------------------------------------Thiago---------------------

Salah/Jota----------------------Salah/Firmino/Jota-------------------------------Mane

We wont see this until maybe August.

The coaches have a lot of work to do.

This

So much better, more measured than some of the knee jerk bollocks that people are posting in the post match.

[Exiled_red]

Fabinho and Kabak at the back, has to be as soon as possible.

I mentioned that seeing Kelleher (who was great) Phillips and Hendo at the back is like an anxiety dream. But it would just not have seemed possible that this could be where we are in February when we set off on this season.

But here we are.

At the start of the season definately, at the moment I'm not too concerned about how them, they have done well so far (obviously potentially a different story against City).

The attacking side of the game is far more of a concern for me, I've always been of the believe that you always have to expect that you will concede a goal, so in order to win a game you need to score 2, we haven't been doing that, and for me that's where the problems lie. If the defence is shipping 2 or more a game that's where the problem lies, if you frequently aren't getting 2 goals then that's the problem, and that's where we are at the moment.

[Buzzo]

Just to hammer home the point.


--------------------------------------Alisson----------------------------------------------

Trent----------------Gomez-------------------------Van Dijk---------------------Robbo

------------------------------------Fabinho-----------------------------------------------

-------------Hendo-------------------------------------------Thiago---------------------

Salah/Jota----------------------Salah/Firmino/Jota-------------------------------Mane


This is what missing from our best eleven or is playing out of position. The spine. And half of the four man attack, leaving us with the one who isn't reknowned for goals and Salah, who we pretty much rely on as our only goal threat now.

Take 7 players each with a value of plus £50m out of City or Utd's squads and see how they get on. Take them from the likes of Spurs or Everton or Arsenal and they might get relegated.

[Doc_Piptorious]

The knock on effects of all of the injuries are that the machine is missing too many pieces, there is then an over reliance on certain players in other areas and the entire thing is mis firing. We are well drilled typically, but not with so many key players missing. Imagine Fabinho back in Midfield. Hendo sets the tempo and is doing a great job at the back but to such a cost for the midfield.

The solutions right now are not obvious as we keep losing more and more players to inujury. Since we beat Spurs just 6 days ago we have lost Matip, Mane and Alisson. Its just not sustainable changing line up so often.

Look at our strongest team in their best postions and look at tonight. Imagine the bench if these guys were all fit.

--------------------------------------Alisson----------------------------------------------

Trent----------------Gomez-------------------------Van Dijk---------------------Robbo

------------------------------------Fabinho-----------------------------------------------

-------------Hendo-------------------------------------------Thiago---------------------

Salah/Jota----------------------Salah/Firmino/Jota-------------------------------Mane

We wont see this until maybe August.

The coaches have a lot of work to do.

This post states the obvious but sometimes that is exactly what is needed when the obvious gets ignored. Needs to be digested and treated like a calming breath.

Just looking at that line up really hammers home just how many moving parts were missing from our team tonight and it also highlights how some players, like Thiago, are having to perform in roles that sees them being functional rather than allowing them to play their natural game.

[Buzzo]

At the start of the season definately, at the moment I'm not too concerned about how them, they have done well so far (obviously potentially a different story against City).

The attacking side of the game is far more of a concern for me, I've always been of the believe that you always have to expect that you will concede a goal, so in order to win a game you need to score 2, we haven't been doing that, and for me that's where the problems lie. If the defence is shipping 2 or more a game that's where the problem lies, if you frequently aren't getting 2 goals then that's the problem, and that's where we are at the moment.

But Virgil and Gomez or Matip are so important to how we move the ball across the back. And we need about three Hendo's just now. We miss his drive (and leadership) from midfield. The high line and the press are all massive.

Ive nearly forgotten what we look like with big Virgil winning the ball ang moving us forward - it is a different proposition.

It feels like we are plugging holes to stop water leaking in, but new ones are popping up every time we play.

It seemed inconceivable that Matip went off and is now out for the season. (yes I know he is always injured, but lets say we hoped we get him for 1 in every three).

Then Mane out...

Now Alisson.

That must demolish morale. And be tough for the management to take.

So, that the potential. How we see it out with all these injuries and only one genuine goal threat... I have no idea.

[Buzzo]

This post states the obvious but sometimes that is exactly what is needed when the obvious gets ignored. Needs to be digested and treated like a calming breath.

Just looking at that line up really hammers home just how many moving parts were missing from our team tonight and it also highlights how some players, like Thiago, are having to perform in roles that sees them being functional rather than allowing them to play their natural game.

I just wanted to look at our strongest XI to begin with. Just to remember. For old times sake.

You can switch in mabe even 2-3 for a game like tonight. All in good form, not feeling like they desperately need to produce a miracle.

You can't operate without 6-7 out of an elite pick of first choice that is maybe 12-14 players. We are relying heavily on some players that we would normally be seeing a few minutes from, or they would be coming into a functioning team. They are coming in to a patched up monstrosity, on the back of their own injuries and we need them to deliver instantly.

[Buzzo]

Here is my 100% radical solution at least short term?

Try Trent in midfield. Like the old Gerrard Torres routine with Salah? Why not? Trent is fast, athletic, quick on the ball, got a good shot on him - he could defintely cause some problems.

------------------------------------------Alisson----------------------------------------------

Milner---------------------Kabak--------------------Fabinho-------------------------Robbo

---------------------------Hendo---------------------Thiago----------------------------------

-----------Jota(jones until he is fit)----Trent------------------------Mane-------------------

-----------------------------------------Salah--------------------------------------------------

[Doc_Piptorious]

I just wanted to look at our strongest XI to begin with. Just to remember. For old times sake.

You can switch in mabe even 2-3 for a game like tonight. All in good form, not feeling like they desperately need to produce a miracle.

You can't operate without 6-7 out of an elite pick of first choice that is maybe 12-14 players. We are relying heavily on some players that we would normally be seeing a few minutes from, or they would be coming into a functioning team. They are coming in to a patched up monstrosity, on the back of their own injuries and we need them to deliver instantly.

Oh it was not a knock in the slightest when I said that. Just think that at times this season, and tonight, stating the obvious or rather accepting the obvious is something that is being lost on some folk.

I get people being frustrated with how the season is going, but tying ourselves up in knots over why we are not sweeping teams aside and trying to find deeper tactical or psychological reasons, or thinking Klopp is upset, the owners are shyte, or whatever is reaching too much for my liking. That is why I liked your post as, for me, it showed that quite often the most obvious answer is the correct answer.


We are a footballing Frankenstein's monster at present. A patchwork of parts that resemble something great, that resemble something powerful, but in reality is something that trundles along creating an almost uncanny valley type feeling in those that see it. It is something that can hurt you if you stand right in front of it and try to trade blows with it, but is also something that can be frustrated when it's limitations or flaws get brought to the fore.

[Buzzo]

Oh it was not a knock in the slightest when I said that. Just think that at times this season, and tonight, stating the obvious or rather accepting the obvious is something that is being lost on some folk.

I get people being frustrated with how the season is going, but tying ourselves up in knots over why we are not sweeping teams aside and trying to find deeper tactical or psychological reasons, or thinking Klopp is upset, the owners are shyte, or whatever is reaching too much for my liking. That is why I liked your post as, for me, it showed that quite often the most obvious answer is the correct answer.


We are a footballing Frankenstein's monster at present. A patchwork of parts that resemble something great, that resemble something powerful, but in reality is something that trundles along creating an almost uncanny valley type feeling in those that see it. It is something that can hurt you if you stand right in front of it and try to trade blows with it, but is also something that can be frustrated when it's limitations or flaws get brought to the fore.

and I got that.

Totally agree with your post. Looking at that line up made me feel less anxious. I needed to see it

We cant get it all back this season, but we can get a lot of it. Surely when the weather gets better we will stop having quite so many injuries?

The big issue is that Mane hasnt been quite as prolific. Jota has been injured. Bobby isnt prolific.

So it is all on Mo.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Here is my 100% radical solution at least short term?

Try Trent in midfield. Like the old Gerrard Torres routine with Salah? Why not? Trent is fast, athletic, quick on the ball, got a good shot on him - he could defintely cause some problems.

------------------------------------------Alisson----------------------------------------------

Milner---------------------Kabak--------------------Fabinho-------------------------Robbo

---------------------------Hendo---------------------Thiago----------------------------------

-----------Jota(jones until he is fit)----Trent------------------------Mane-------------------

-----------------------------------------Salah--------------------------------------------------

I would not try Trent in midfield. He is used to getting more time on the right flank that he would in the centre and he is used to his play operating almost in a 180 degree bubble compared to the 360 degree one a midfielder operates in. He would not need his confidence taking a knock trying to adapt to a brand new position mid season.

With just a couple players back I would gamble on this line up instead.


------------------------------------------Alisson-------------------------------------
TAA----------------Kabak-----------------------------Davies-----------------Robbo
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------Fabinho--------------------------------------
------------Henderson------------------------------------Thiago--------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Salah------------------------------Firmino----------------------------------Mane


And as soon as Jota is back then I would move him into the front three in place of Firmino. That could be Jota in the middle role, it could be Salah in the centre with Mane on the right and Jota on the left or Mane on the right and Jota on the left.

I know the two CBs have not played for us yet, but the logic behind my line up is every player is in their natural position and also, and maybe crucially, we get to play a full strength midfield where each midfielder best qualities allows the next midfielder to play to his best qualities.


Sure there may be teething problems with the CBs, but a full strength midfield in front of a pair of settling but experienced natural CBs has to be better than a patched up midfield playing in front of an even more patched up CB pairing.

[Buzzo]

I definitely think Jota back is so important. Its just something different for teams to think about having been served Salah-Mane-Firmino solid for 3 seasons.

Saying that, your radical line up is pretty much how we always line up. I'm looking at mind bending '''WOAH''' 'they never saw that coming' type stuff

Tthat midfield (Fab, Hendo, Thiago) is supremely well balanced. Got a bit of everything.

[Norbs]

Here is my 100% radical solution at least short term?

Try Trent in midfield. Like the old Gerrard Torres routine with Salah? Why not? Trent is fast, athletic, quick on the ball, got a good shot on him - he could defintely cause some problems.

------------------------------------------Alisson----------------------------------------------

Milner---------------------Kabak--------------------Fabinho-------------------------Robbo

---------------------------Hendo---------------------Thiago----------------------------------

-----------Jota(jones until he is fit)----Trent------------------------Mane-------------------

-----------------------------------------Salah--------------------------------------------------

Got to get the ball early with a bit of space though or they'll still be threading balls through the eye of a needle.

How many games have we lost 1-0 now to teams that know their chance will come and that if it doesn't they'll be content with a point? We've become so relient on counter attacking and our build up play is just too slow and predictable

[Doc_Piptorious]

I definitely think Jota back is so important. Its just something different for teams to think about having been served Salah-Mane-Firmino solid for 3 seasons.

Saying that, your radical line up is pretty much how we always line up. I'm looking at mind bending '''WOAH''' 'they never saw that coming' type stuff

Tthat midfield (Fab, Hendo, Thiago) is supremely well balanced. Got a bit of everything.

Yes it is, but right now we are trying to line up like we normally do but are taking players out of their best positions, like Henderson or Fab when fit, and putting them into other roles which then leaves players not quite as good to fill the holes left by Fab and Henderson. So we end up with lots of players in positions where they can do a good job, but it also creates a scenario that we end up with five positions (the two CB roles and all three Midfield roles) where nobody is really in their best role or in a postion/role that they are not quite at first team level for yet.

So my totally not radical idea would be to look at each position and put the best player we have for that position in it. That way we may end up with one part of our team not quite up to speed but everyone in a position that is natural to them, and the other two parts of the team being at full strength.

[Buzzo]

Yes it is, but right now we are trying to line up like we normally do but are taking players out of their best positions, like Henderson or Fab when fit, and putting them into other roles which then leaves players not quite as good to fill the holes left by Fab and Henderson. So we end up with lots of players in positions where they can do a good job, but it also creates a scenario that we end up with five positions (the two CB roles and all three Midfield roles) where nobody is really in their best role or in a postion/role that they are not quite at first team level for yet.

So my totally not radical idea would be to look at each position and put the best player we have for that position in it. That way we may end up with one part of our team not quite up to speed but everyone in a position that is natural to them, and the other two parts of the team being at full strength.

In a perverse way, perhaps the best team for us to face next is City.

We do need Mane, Fab and Allison back though.

[baitman]

I would not try Trent in midfield. He is used to getting more time on the right flank that he would in the centre and he is used to his play operating almost in a 180 degree bubble compared to the 360 degree one a midfielder operates in. He would not need his confidence taking a knock trying to adapt to a brand new position mid season.

With just a couple players back I would gamble on this line up instead.


------------------------------------------Alisson-------------------------------------
TAA----------------Kabak-----------------------------Davies-----------------Robbo
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------Fabinho--------------------------------------
------------Henderson------------------------------------Thiago--------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Salah------------------------------Firmino----------------------------------Mane


And as soon as Jota is back then I would move him into the front three in place of Firmino. That could be Jota in the middle role, it could be Salah in the centre with Mane on the right and Jota on the left or Mane on the right and Jota on the left.

I know the two CBs have not played for us yet, but the logic behind my line up is every player is in their natural position and also, and maybe crucially, we get to play a full strength midfield where each midfielder best qualities allows the next midfielder to play to his best qualities.


Sure there may be teething problems with the CBs, but a full strength midfield in front of a pair of settling but experienced natural CBs has to be better than a patched up midfield playing in front of an even more patched up CB pairing.

Yes, we need to hold the midfield and recycle the ball faster.
Although the two new CB lads are brand new we will be more solid through the rest of the pitch, but dont rulenout Nat Philips playing as one of the CB if we shift the A team back to midfield.