Our style of play

[Fredo]

Yet just a more extreme manifestation of your general discourse.

What do you mean?

[labourRed]

I’m frustrated but I’ve more important stuff to be thinking about / doing than to let it spoil my day, or manifest itself physically.

Every time I log on here though all I see from you is the same old parroting of tired and unsubstantiated tropes, cut & pasting vacant statements like “we are just unlucky”, “we need PMI” etc etc of no analytical merit. At least others highlight our weaknesses and mistakes & look for patterns. You’re fast becoming the Bodge of Est with your facile platitudes. And you do it for affect & attention by drawing people in when they want to vent or discuss. It’s ludicrously tiresome and you know it.

[Darkon]

I know everything is a bit rough on the football side of things, but can we please stop this "discussion" and go back to the the actual thread. A couple of posters have been wrong in the tone and choice of words, and everyone should try an engage in a more positive debate. Calling out each other in threads helps nothing in terms of creating a good atmosphere to discuss things. Please report the stuff instead to the mods, and we notice a high enough volume on a certain poster we will do something.

So, please, back to our style of play, that is generally very entertaining and highly ineffective as of this season so far.

[baitman]

...generally very entertaining and highly ineffective as of this season so far.

[PTP]

yeah back on topic

we all can see our issues - firminho is getting a bit of stick and whilst i'm not his biggest fan he is defo not the biggest issue.

For me - get back to basics.....all good sides have a solid/great spine that can lead/inspire/calm/win matches be it from a defensive or attacking point of view.

our 'spine' is currently

mignolet
matip
Henderson
firminho

Now - looking at that....firmino is probably our strongest/most consistent player in our spine

for arguments sake - i'd say you'd want him being our weakest if that makes sense - if we had a top class keeper/cb/cm - then firminho as centre forward - we'd be in a much stronger position than we are now.

right now -

Mignolet/Karius - not commanding enough/prone to errors

Matip - not a leader/organiser and does seem to pick up niggles

Henderson - never a leader/captain/lynchpin and has had horrendous injuries - for me a centre mid needs to excel at something - he's decent at most things but he doesn't excel in finishing/tackling/passing/creating/set pieces - his big thing was his workrate/ground covered but I feel maybe the position/role he is asked to play/maybe being captain/maybe an effect of his injuries that he is not as effect as he used to be.

firmino - no doubting his workrate and when he plays well he looks unreal - but he blows hot and cold and is never looking likely to be a 20 goal a season CF

So for me - if we want to improve/challenge we really need to improve the spine -

Arguably we have done the midfield when Keita arrives and if we ever actually sign van dijk then we improve cb - if we can find a top class keeper we'd be so much better. Once those three spots are sorted then it's all go for a striker.

Top keeper
VVD
Keita
Top striker

That's what the spine should be. - Then, all of sudden, the likes of Matip/Henderson/Firmino supporting/backup/competing to start would see them drastically improve imo.

I'd say we go all out for Van Dijk in January - then next summer, look to ship out Mig/Karius/Sturridge/Origi/Ings/Markovic etc and go balls deep for a top class keeper and centreforward

I know it's crazy to be thinking so far ahead and this season has just started but it's what we need to do

Squad list time - I want to see something like - 25 man squad - players in bold as new signings/new starting spine

Top Keeper/Ward

Clyne/Taa
VVD/Matip/Lovren/Gomez
Robertson/Moreno

Keita/Can/Coutinho/Henderson/Lallana/Wijnaldum/Milner/Grujic

Mane/Salah/Ox/Woodburn

Top striker/Firminho/Solanke

[Kenneth]

Can we let go of this 'biggest issue' thing? There are so many interconnected elements to the game, and lots of different ways of winning matches. The idea that we need to identify our biggest problem and address that is so reductive.

[Roboklopp]

I know everything is a bit rough on the football side of things, but can we please stop this "discussion" and go back to the the actual thread. A couple of posters have been wrong in the tone and choice of words, and everyone should try an engage in a more positive debate. Calling out each other in threads helps nothing in terms of creating a good atmosphere to discuss things. Please report the stuff instead to the mods, and we notice a high enough volume on a certain poster we will do something.

So, please, back to our style of play, that is generally very entertaining and highly ineffective as of this season so far.

What’s the point tho? People have openly complained about Fredo’s repeated sniping, sarcasm, tone & trolling for months & nowt’s done about it. He gets away with being positive to the point of inane & blinkard at best, destructive to decent discussion beyond that, but there are people who are not as extreme in their views like LDP who get hammered for being negative cos they’re seen by the mods as on the wrong side of the debate divide.

Plus I’m actually sure the discussion used to be more animated & with more friction back in the “halycon” days of this place people hark back to than less so. It was never the peaceful positive polite utopia some seem to paint it as.

[danperkins]

My link doesn't seem to work because of internet magic, but just shows that we've had 121 shots and scored 6 goals in our last 6 games :/

That's incredible

[Darkon]

What’s the point tho? People have openly complained about Fredo’s repeated sniping, sarcasm, tone & trolling for months & nowt’s done about it. He gets away with being positive to the point of inane & blinkard at best, destructive to decent discussion beyond that, but there are people who are not as extreme in their views like LDP who get hammered for being negative cos they’re seen by the mods as on the wrong side of the debate divide.

Plus I’m actually sure the discussion used to be more animated & with more friction back in the “halycon” days of this place people hark back to than less so. It was never the peaceful positive polite utopia some seem to paint it as.

It's nothing to do with being an utopia or any other lable you want to put on it, it's about having a respectfull debate with eachother which is not achieved currently. And it's several people that are involved with that by either being provocative in a none-engaging way, being perhaps too one-dimensional in their view/argument or simply just biting on instead of ignoring and putting more fuel on the fire.

In any case there is defo no point in derailing threads and creating an (IMO) incredibly annoying reading experience for everyone not involved in the drama of the day.

So perhaps instead of openly complaining about a certain poster or posters then actually report the problem so the mods can get a better overview instead of derailing threads could be a solution? That's really all that's asked. It's fair enough to have issues, but it's just about where it's brought up. Things are done behind the scenes by mods/admins, but it's not necessarily the same as it's visible to everyone.

It's really just about creating a good debate here and I don't see anyone achieving that by having posters going after each other openly. As said, it's completely fair to have a problem/issue with a poster, the tone or whatever it's just about raising the issue in a better way.

Anyways, I'd be willing to discuss this if you want, but please take it to the feedback forum or PM then as to not derail this thread once more

[ChesterDave]

That's incredible

It's also wrong. We've scored 7 in our last 5

[Roboklopp]

It's nothing to do with being an utopia or any other lable you want to put on it, it's about having a respectfull debate with eachother which is not achieved currently. And it's several people that are involved with that by either being provocative in a none-engaging way, being perhaps too one-dimensional in their view/argument or simply just biting on instead of ignoring and putting more fuel on the fire.

In any case there is defo no point in derailing threads and creating an (IMO) incredibly annoying reading experience for everyone not involved in the drama of the day.

So perhaps instead of openly complaining about a certain poster or posters then actually report the problem so the mods can get a better overview instead of derailing threads could be a solution? That's really all that's asked. It's fair enough to have issues, but it's just about where it's brought up. Things are done behind the scenes by mods/admins, but it's not necessarily the same as it's visible to everyone.

It's really just about creating a good debate here and I don't see anyone achieving that by having posters going after each other openly. As said, it's completely fair to have a problem/issue with a poster, the tone or whatever it's just about raising the issue in a better way.

Anyways, I'd be willing to discuss this if you want, but please take it to the feedback forum or PM then as to not derail this thread once more

I’ve said my piece, nowt further to add.

[gratziani]

i actually enjoy watching us under Klopp , he tries to win games and play attacking football.

Plus he seems to get the best out of players and improve them.

Just frustrating as **** that we gift goals to the opposition instead of making them work for the goals .

[Bender]

i actually enjoy watching us under Klopp , he tries to win games and play attacking football.

Plus he seems to get the best out of players and improve them.

Just frustrating as **** that we gift goals to the opposition instead of making them work for the goals .

Yeah after 2 seasons the coaching is going well.

[gratziani]

Yeah after 2 seasons the coaching is going well.

He has got as back in Champions league which has to be counted as a success in his first full season .

Bought Mane and turned him into a world class player.

I get why people are pissed off if we were playing **** turgid football but we are not.

More plus points than negative for me.

[RedReet]

He has got as back in Champions league which has to be counted as a success in his first full season .

Bought Mane and turned him into a world class player.

I get why people are pissed off if we were playing **** turgid football but we are not.

More plus points than negative for me.

It's crazy, i don't get it either.

In his first season, he got us to two cup finals. In his first full season, he gave us a (short-lived) title challenge and guided us to CL qualification, against the odds. He's overachieved. He's made some great signings, improved the squad, made us appealing again to top class players and has us playing exciting football every match, even if we don't get the goals some of our play deserves.

What are his biggest crimes? Not being more defensive and playing a DM. Not being more attacking and playing a CF. Not making Southampton sell VVD. To quote a famous thread, 'we are in decline'!