Everton post match

[Lecter]

I must admit I'm not quite as positive as many of the people on this forum

I will start by saying I can see what Rodgers is trying to do with the possession game and long term I think this is the way forward but for me there are major issues we have other than an inability to finish the few chances we create

To play that system you rely on winning possession back high and early and turning it and attacking teams from that transition. We havent done that anywhere near frequently enough this season and for me this should be more evident in our play than even the passing side of things because if it isnt then you are easily and readily exploited

The actual system / plan is very easy to shut down and Everton showed it today, push up high and force the keeper to kick it long. Not only dont we have anybody with the ability to win headers we dont win anywhere enough of the second balls from the inevitable defensive clearance

Now maybe Lucas' absence is hindering the high pressing and winning second balls but we should be able to get more of this from the current squad players we have in terms of this

Maybe I'm looking at it skewed, but for me what you do out of possession is equally as important as what you do in it

[G]

I must admit I'm not quite as positive as many of the people on this forum

I will start by saying I can see what Rodgers is trying to do with the possession game and long term I think this is the way forward but for me there are major issues we have other than an inability to finish the few chances we create

To play that system you rely on winning possession back high and early and turning it and attacking teams from that transition. We havent done that anywhere near frequently enough this season and for me this should be more evident in our play than even the passing side of things because if it isnt then you are easily and readily exploited

The actual system / plan is very easy to shut down and Everton showed it today, push up high and force the keeper to kick it long. Not only dont we have anybody with the ability to win headers we dont win anywhere enough of the second balls from the inevitable defensive clearance

Now maybe Lucas' absence is hindering the high pressing and winning second balls but we should be able to get more of this from the current squad players we have in terms of this

Maybe I'm looking at it skewed, but for me what you do out of possession is equally as important as what you do in it

I'm worried about our defensive frailty,at what point is it allowed to move on from "we are learning a new system" to the point where we can say we are just very poor at the back.

[Leyton388]

We have never replaced Sami to be honest and i would love too see him back at the club as our defensive coach.

[Robbie-9-Fowler]

Yeah Moyes seems quite a fair, level-headed man. I know everybody hates him here but I think hes alright.

Me too mate I just don't think I liked the idea of someone being congratulated on not being a cunt

[Lecter]

I'm worried about our defensive frailty,at what point is it allowed to move on from "we are learning a new system" to the point where we can say we are just very poor at the back.

I'm not convinced its solely down to the back four though.

We dont win anywhere near enough possession in midfield and if you arent stopping it further away from goal then your team will come under pressure and if you scrutinise any back four enough then invariably mistakes will be made

[Tee]

I must admit I'm not quite as positive as many of the people on this forum

I will start by saying I can see what Rodgers is trying to do with the possession game and long term I think this is the way forward but for me there are major issues we have other than an inability to finish the few chances we create

To play that system you rely on winning possession back high and early and turning it and attacking teams from that transition. We havent done that anywhere near frequently enough this season and for me this should be more evident in our play than even the passing side of things because if it isnt then you are easily and readily exploited

The actual system / plan is very easy to shut down and Everton showed it today, push up high and force the keeper to kick it long. Not only dont we have anybody with the ability to win headers we dont win anywhere enough of the second balls from the inevitable defensive clearance

Now maybe Lucas' absence is hindering the high pressing and winning second balls but we should be able to get more of this from the current squad players we have in terms of this

Maybe I'm looking at it skewed, but for me what you do out of possession is equally as important as what you do in it

Spot on.

We did not press them enough when they had the ball, or our pressing was not quick enough when we did. We let them play through us too easily IMO.

[Fredo]

I must admit I'm not quite as positive as many of the people on this forum

I will start by saying I can see what Rodgers is trying to do with the possession game and long term I think this is the way forward but for me there are major issues we have other than an inability to finish the few chances we create

To play that system you rely on winning possession back high and early and turning it and attacking teams from that transition. We havent done that anywhere near frequently enough this season and for me this should be more evident in our play than even the passing side of things because if it isnt then you are easily and readily exploited

The actual system / plan is very easy to shut down and Everton showed it today, push up high and force the keeper to kick it long. Not only dont we have anybody with the ability to win headers we dont win anywhere enough of the second balls from the inevitable defensive clearance

Now maybe Lucas' absence is hindering the high pressing and winning second balls but we should be able to get more of this from the current squad players we have in terms of this

Maybe I'm looking at it skewed, but for me what you do out of possession is equally as important as what you do in it

We don't win enough second balls. As for winning possession back, I agree, there are too many gaps between the players pressing for the ball and the rest. It seems it's done in 'zones', rather than as a team.

Must be something that Rodgers has specifically instructed the players to do and maybe it'll pay up long term. Not sure why we surrendered possession as much as we did second half though, probably due to tiredness? I thought we would have beaten them easy if we tried to play a bit more.

[MrMichael]

I'm not convinced its solely down to the back four though.

We dont win anywhere near enough possession in midfield and if you arent stopping it further away from goal then your team will come under pressure and if you scrutinise any back four enough then invariably mistakes will be made

Is that about system or personnel though?

And is that representative of our whole season, or just on parts of a few (tough) games?

Sahin was anonymous today and Suso wasn't getting involved much physically either. Sterling had to be told to stop trying to tackle before he got sent off. That basically left Allen and Gerrard quite heavily outnumbered. Not to mention the disaster that poor Wisdom had.

Fact is, our squad is light both on bodies and on experience, and without Lucas in a game played at that pace and with that level of physicality we were always going to have a few problems.

[G]

I'm not convinced its solely down to the back four though.

We dont win anywhere near enough possession in midfield and if you arent stopping it further away from goal then your team will come under pressure and if you scrutinise any back four enough then invariably mistakes will be made

Yeah thats fair enough, I didnt mean just the back four and keeper.I've made the point here before that Reina's mistakes were being amplified by us not scoring very often,the defence is under a lot of pressure to be perfect but really,at this stage of the season I would have expected our players to have gotten to grips with our new system and been much tighter defensively then we have so far proved to be. Swansea shipped a lot of goals and hardly scored many either,its a cause for concern.

[Fredo]

Sahin was anonymous because we didn't pass the ball well enough. I thought he was getting into good positions up front early on in the game (he played further up the pitch as Gerrard was sitting with Allen). He was anonymous because it was symptomatic of the way we played, not due to his inability of getting into the game.

[Lecter]

Is that about system or personnel though?

And is that representative of our whole season, or just on parts of a few (tough) games?

Sahin was anonymous today and Suso wasn't getting involved much physically either. Sterling had to be told to stop trying to tackle before he got sent off. That basically left Allen and Gerrard quite heavily outnumbered. Not to mention the disaster that poor Wisdom had.

Fact is, our squad is light both on bodies and on experience, and without Lucas in a game played at that pace and with that level of physicality we were always going to have a few problems.

Its been evidence more often than not

Is it because Lucas is missing, well we can only tell when he returns

That said we should be able to get more out of the other players than we are doing in terms of this

Now I think at times we have seen the odd player do this but its too isolated and I would expect to see a more defensive cohesive midfield unit doing this

[MrMichael]

Sahin was anonymous because we didn't pass the ball well enough. I thought he was getting into good positions up front early on in the game (he played further up the pitch as Gerrard was sitting with Allen). He was anonymous because it was symptomatic of the way we played, not due to his inability of getting into the game.

Surely Sahin, playing in a midfield 3, is responsible for gaining and retaining possession and for passing the ball himself? He was anonymous because the game was played at a million miles an hour and he couldn't get into it. Its not a massive denigration, he'll hardly be the first decent player to come in from a foreign league and get a bit lost in a Merseyside derby, but Suarez, Sterling and in different ways, Gerrard and Allen did manage to get into the game, Suso and Sahin didn't.

[Lecter]

Sahin was anonymous because we didn't pass the ball well enough. I thought he was getting into good positions up front early on in the game (he played further up the pitch as Gerrard was sitting with Allen). He was anonymous because it was symptomatic of the way we played, not due to his inability of getting into the game.

Sahin has to contribute more all round

Take his performance mid-week I thought he was all round excellent, he pressed high and competed for 2nd balls

But it needs to be done more frequently by all the midfield and even the attacking players

[Lecter]

We don't win enough second balls. As for winning possession back, I agree, there are too many gaps between the players pressing for the ball and the rest. It seems it's done in 'zones', rather than as a team.

Must be something that Rodgers has specifically instructed the players to do and maybe it'll pay up long term. Not sure why we surrendered possession as much as we did second half though, probably due to tiredness? I thought we would have beaten them easy if we tried to play a bit more.

I'm not sure what its been doing in, whether its zonal or not it isnt done anywhere near enough

[Fredo]

Surely Sahin, playing in a midfield 3, is responsible for gaining and retaining possession and for passing the ball himself? He was anonymous because the game was played at a million miles an hour and he couldn't get into it. Its not a massive denigration, he'll hardly be the first decent player to come in from a foreign league and get a bit lost in a Merseyside derby, but Suarez, Sterling and in different ways, Gerrard and Allen did manage to get into the game, Suso and Sahin didn't.

Thought he was trying to slow the game down, one moment on the right when he was waiting for Sterling (?) or Wisdom to be in a better position to receive the ball, but there wasn't anyone available, then he lost it. It wasn't the game for him because as a whole we weren't good enough with the ball. Defensively he was OK I think, wasn't winning tackles or anything but his positioning was alright IIRC. He's not a tackler, so you expect us to dominate games with our passing if he's in the side, well that was the initial idea I guess.