Poll - Expectations of Fans, Manager and Owners

[dom9]

I should have said a few people

Seriously though, starting criticsing a fans small survey to spark some discussion by it's research design and methodology, as if it's to be judged along side something to be published in a scientific journal is to me a bit overkill, and taking it for more than it is. And furthermore scoring points over the OP by him not knowing an entire back-catalogue of research methods, reads to me (might not be intended?) that you are taking it too seriously, and assumes anyone who might be interesting in aggregating some opinions as a layman can't do so without picking up a handbook in quantative methods and preferably some theory of science as well, just kinda misses the essense of it IMO.

It's a light-hearted survey to spark a bit of discussion/debate, and not even claiming to be a representative, randomly selected, perhaps even clustered in it's approach, and therefore I can't see why it should be taken as more?

Personally I thought it could be a bit of fun seeing what could come out of it, even if some of the questions were poorly formulated, and even if it didn't go along everything I've learned at univeristy as how to do this type of research...

I must say, it's not often you read this word on a football forum without it being suffixed by '****'.

I'm with Neil on the Uruguay stat too (sorry everyone). Ah well.

[Neil Young]

I should have said a few people

Seriously though, starting criticsing a fans small survey to spark some discussion by it's research design and methodology, as if it's to be judged along side something to be published in a scientific journal is to me a bit overkill, and taking it for more than it is. And furthermore scoring points over the OP by him not knowing an entire back-catalogue of research methods, reads to me (might not be intended?) that you are taking it too seriously, and assumes anyone who might be interesting in aggregating some opinions as a layman can't do so without picking up a handbook in quantative methods and preferably some theory of science as well, just kinda misses the essense of it IMO.

It's a light-hearted survey to spark a bit of discussion/debate, and not even claiming to be a representative, randomly selected, perhaps even clustered in it's approach, and therefore I can't see why it should be taken as more?

Personally I thought it could be a bit of fun seeing what could come out of it, even if some of the questions were poorly formulated, and even if it didn't go along everything I've learned at univeristy as how to do this type of research...

FFS Darkon, look at what was said. He accused me of talking "rubbish" because I suggested measurement may not be the only way of gathering data. Don't have a go at me for "scoring points" in that context.

[Kenneth]

And 1.2% of fans who responded being from Uruguay tells us what? That LFC is now relatively popular in Uruguay.

Blimey, what an astonishing statistic that is. It's almost as though by signing their country's best player and one of their best young players, some people in Uruguay might have become interested in the club the players now play for.

I was expecting 1.1% but 1.2%, it's totally amazing. Of course 1.3% was always a dream.

In other words, I don't need a number to tell me that support in Uruguay will have increased since Suárez and Coates joined. Of course I would if I were trying to access that market but I'm not.

Now what "debate" can we have about that statistic? Come on, what's the point?

And a few basic questions:

1. How many people constitute 1.2% of the sample? A hundred? A thousand?
   
2. And what are the confidence limits?
   
3. And how does it compare to relative proportions of followers enjoyed by other clubs?
   
4. And what proportion of the world population are we talking about taking part in this global survey?

None, because you'll have killed the thread by then with your tedious bull****.

[Vermilion]

When are the poll results in ?

[Darkon]

FFS Darkon, look at what was said. He accused me of talking "rubbish" because I suggested measurement may not be the only way of gathering data. Don't have a go at me for "scoring points" in that context.

I read those sentence apart from eachother, rubbish refering to one thing, the question of how you would meassure it to another point.

As I said, that's how it came across to me, even if not intended

Rest of the point still stands though.

edit: Sorry was just aware about asking to stop this, so I will leave this as the final post on the matter and hope we can get back to discussing the results when they are there, without it going all academic

[Muddled]

None, because you'll have killed the thread by then with your tedious bull****.

[Red_Polo]

Hypothetically lets say, 90% of fans from the US think its inconceivable that FSG would sack Rodgers in his first season

By contrast 80% of UK residences think 8th. That would be a clear statistical difference.

Would it though? You'd need to know the numbers of respondents from each and test your data further before you could say that was a statistically significant difference.

I think it was a really great idea but I'm afraid I agree with Neil. I know it seems rather OTT but without being really rigorous stats can be very misleading and drawing conclusions from them infinitely more so.

Anyway, I think it's good of you to make this effort, an despite my reservations it's great you will be publishing the data in full rather than just giving selected results.

[ISMF]

Exactly Darkon it was two separate sentences.

Its seems Neils sole intention is to piss on peoples chips, by wrapping it up in a pseudointellectual argument. Sure polls have there problems, but is there inst a research method (capturing peoples opinion) that doesn't.

One reason Neil didnt go into other research methodologies is because he knows the whole basis of his arguement

People deselecting
Sample size
Timing of experiment
Influence of person conducting the experiment

Are arguments that can be made against ANY study. I cant force people to partake, nor can any other method. However the response of 3000 people is considerable. The timing of the experiment is as good as any other time during the season (international break) , and experimenter will always have some influence when trying to find out someones opinion (from peer pressure/conformity to questions to face to face social contact)

Its not been done as if I was writing a scientific journal that is not he point. Has never been the point. Now I know Neil quick as a flash will say there 1.2% means 36 people....... You know what, that is impressive, and I can do so without doing Anovas, linear regression or any other analysis Neil wants.

All of the countries of south america, all of Africa, all of Russia, and many large european countries like Spain, France, Italy (combined) had less fans partaking.

We have Spanish players (a great deal over the years), we have Brazilians we have Italians. However the huge affect of Suarez on his home nation is attracting a huge number of fans to Liverpool. We all know, before those players arrived probably not a single person from Uruguay would have taken part in the poll. Same applies to other PL clubs (Uruguay does not represent 0.01% of PL fan base)

So to have 1 person in every 100, partaking coming from a small nation it shows the influence 1 player can have.

What does it mean though ?

Well you can leave it at exactly that, the impact of one player in 1 country (fans seeking out more about the player they love by viewing Liverpool forums). However it supports the notion that buying say japanese international will boost the clubs appeal in Japan, attracting fans

No not proof but it illustrates the pulling power of 1 star to attract new fans.

[ISMF]

Would it though? You'd need to know the numbers of respondents from each and test your data further before you could say that was a statistically significant difference.

I think it was a really great idea but I'm afraid I agree with Neil. I know it seems rather OTT but without being really rigorous stats can be very misleading and drawing conclusions from them infinitely more so.

Anyway, I think it's good of you to make this effort, an despite my reservations it's great you will be publishing the data in full rather than just giving selected results.

In a scientific manner yes you would. You would need to do say a t-test. However common sense should also apply

100 people in groups A and groups B

If 80% in group A, think the answer is YES
and 90 % of people in group B think the answer is NO

Do we really need a t-test to tell us there is a difference ?

Academically it would be correct, scientifically it is correct. But if it is a black and white difference for the football forum it is overkill.

(if percentages/numbers were much lower that would be a different matter)

[dom9]

In a scientific manner yes you would. You would need to do say a t-test. However common sense should also apply

100 people in groups A and groups B

If 80% in group A, think the answer is YES
and 90 % of people in group B think the answer is NO

Do we really need a t-test to tell us there is a difference ?

Academically it would be correct, scientifically it is correct. But if it is a black and white difference for the football forum it is overkill.

(if percentages/numbers were lower that would be a different matter)

Here's a poll (well, question) for you.

What's your least favourite LFC fan forum?

[Mattshark]

Bah, I ain't gonna be happy till we have a Kolmogorov-Smirnov test and p-values!

[Neil Young]

Exactly Darkon it was two separate sentences.

Its seems Neils sole intention is to piss on peoples chips, by wrapping it up in a pseudointellectual argument. Sure polls have there problems, but is there inst a research method (capturing peoples opinion) that doesn't.

One reason Neil didnt go into other research methodologies is because he knows the whole basis of his arguement

People deselecting
Sample size
Timing of experiment
Influence of person conducting the experiment

Are arguments that can be made against ANY study. I cant force people to partake, nor can any other method. However the response of 3000 people is considerable. The timing of the experiment is as good as any other time during the season (international break) , and experimenter will always have some influence when trying to find out someones opinion (from peer pressure/conformity to questions to face to face social contact)

Its not been done as if I was writing a scientific journal that is not he point. Has never been the point. Now I know Neil quick as a flash will say there 1.2% means 36 people....... You know what, that is impressive, and I can do so without doing Anovas, linear regression or any other analysis Neil wants.

All of the countries of south america, all of Africa, all of Russia, and many large european countries like Spain, France, Italy (combined) had less fans partaking.

We have Spanish players (a great deal over the years), we have Brazilians we have Italians. However the huge affect of Suarez on his home nation is attracting a huge number of fans to Liverpool. We all know, before those players arrived probably not a single person from Uruguay would have taken part in the poll. Same applies to other PL clubs (Uruguay does not represent 0.01% of PL fan base)

So to have 1 person in every 100, partaking coming from a small nation it shows the influence 1 player can have.

What does it mean though ?

Well you can leave it at exactly that, the impact of one player in 1 country (fans seeking out more about the player they love by viewing Liverpool forums). However it supports the notion that buying say japanese international will boost the clubs appeal in Japan, attracting fans

No not proof but it illustrates the pulling power of 1 star to attract new fans.

Love the pseudointellectual jibe. Hey mods, have you done anything about that? I can't know what I'm talking about because I disagree with him.

And that's an amazing conclusion - one star call pull in lots of (well, 36) fans. Wow, revelatory.

Like I've said, you can do what you want but your seeming belief in your method is misplaced.

And if you stop attacking me I'll stop responding.

[Neil Young]

None, because you'll have killed the thread by then with your tedious bull****.

And f*ck off.

[Kenneth]

.

Love you really.

[Neil Young]

Is it me? I haven't actually read it but it is the sort of thing I'd do.