Dejan Lovren

[Daniel 7]

You could see the problems Lovren was causing as soon as the game started - whereas with Sakho you have a progressive defender who is looking to release the ball forwards with ambitious (and accurate) passing, with Lovren, his first instinct is to go sideways, or more often to turn around and lay the ball to feet back to Mignolet. The passing back to the keeper hasn't been as apparent since Lovren went out of the team and it felt like a step backwards, there was nervousness and insecurity again. Mignolet's upturn in form and confidence went hand in hand with Lovren coming out of the team - I'm not saying he's the sole reason for the keeper getting better, but its certainly helped him that this disaster hasn't been in front of him exposing his weaknesses.

[baitman]

Sakho, Skrtel & Can dont get dragged out of position too often.
They rarely step into wide areas and get caught (this was a constant problem with Lovren). When Sakho is playing Skrtel doesnt go for headers that are in other defenders area and when Lucas is there he doesnt step out

Lec, as Dan pointed out, when there is decent cover skrtel doesnt go wandering to try and intercept the danger.
this might also be true if/when lovren gets to play centrally with decent cover.

but look at last season when glen johnson was our right back. he was often caught too far up the pitch or not tracking his man. sometimes he would be wrong footed and skrtel [playing as a CB] would have to come steaming out to cover. occasionally skrtel either gets done, or the attacker crosses the ball into the space vacated by skrtel. skrtel was being sold out by his team mate and he was damned in he came, damned if he didnt. he was often slated for his daft positional sense, but he was trying to plug holes others were leaving. same when gerrard was playing as dm too.

skrtels positional sense is helped when he has decent players all doing their own job around him, or he will come flying out, much like lovren.

[Lecter]

Lec, as Dan pointed out, when there is decent cover skrtel doesnt go wandering to try and intercept the danger.
this might also be true if/when lovren gets to play centrally with decent cover.

but look at last season when glen johnson was our right back. he was often caught too far up the pitch or not tracking his man. sometimes he would be wrong footed and skrtel [playing as a CB] would have to come steaming out to cover. occasionally skrtel either gets done, or the attacker crosses the ball into the space vacated by skrtel. skrtel was being sold out by his team mate and he was damned in he came, damned if he didnt. he was often slated for his daft positional sense, but he was trying to plug holes others were leaving. same when gerrard was playing as dm too.

skrtels positional sense is helped when he has decent players all doing their own job around him, or he will come flying out, much like lovren.

We played a back four at the start of this season and Skrtel was nowhere near as guilty of poor positional play as Lovren was

I am not saying Skrtel is perfect and the system has helped him but even prior to this he was positionally head and shoulders better than Lovren

Its been a long long time since I have seen a player as poor positionally as Lovren and its not just in game its from set pieces etc..

Terrible terrible player

[Doc_Piptorious]

Its not just that

Look back at the goals we conceded its as much about players being in the wrong areas as about there being a lack of protection

For me you can only blame the midfield so much

Early part of the season we were conceding goals from straight balls and we had central defenders being totally wrong positionally

Thats sod all to do with the midfield and protection imo

The change in formation and personnel has all helped

Sakho, Skrtel & Can dont get dragged out of position too often. They rarely step into wide areas and get caught (this was a constant problem with Lovren). When Sakho is playing Skrtel doesnt go for headers that are in other defenders area and when Lucas is there he doesnt step out

I thought Sunday was interesting to watch because its the first time in a few weeks we have been caused problems by long straight balls. Previous games we have just snuffed them out a great example of this was when we played West Ham and Sakho won so many straight balls that day I lost count

He still does. He actually collided with Sakho in either the Spurs game or the Besiktas game. Sakho was going for a ball on his own side well outside of the box, and Skrtel came charging in for the same ball despite Sakho not being under pressure beforehand from an opposing player.


Skrtel did it at least twice to Can in the Southampton game.


It is something that has not gone out of his game, and only really draws a lot of attention when it leads to a goal or an injury like the time Skrtel and Carragher collided going for the same ball.

[Lecter]

He still does. He actually collided with Sakho in either the Spurs game or the Besiktas game. Sakho was going for a ball on his own side well outside of the box, and Skrtel came charging in for the same ball despite Sakho not being under pressure beforehand from an opposing player.


Skrtel did it at least twice to Can in the Southampton game.


It is something that has not gone out of his game, and only really draws a lot of attention when it leads to a goal or an injury like the time Skrtel and Carragher collided going for the same ball.

Must have been the Spurs game as didnt get to watch that

Saw the carnage v Southampton though

[Doc_Piptorious]

Must have been the Spurs game as didnt get to watch that

Saw the carnage v Southampton though

Thought he was worse in that came for taking up the same space as Sakho on Sakho's side than he was at doing the same to Can against Southampton.


But it is something that at this stage in his career is not going to be worked out of his game, and at least with a three CB system when he rushes out and does it there is a chance that the third CB will get a chance to pick up the pieces whereas in a two CB system the chances of being punished are much greater.


And it is not as though Sktrel has not put in some really good performances himself this season, but of the three CBs we are currently using as our regular starters, he is the one that would be the easiest to replace imo, and I think if we put a high calibre CB in that slot between Sakho and Can we would see a further upturn in our defensive fortunes.

[DannyMan2006]

I think Skrtel has done very well in that middle spot and I wouldn't be in a rush to replace him tbh.

Similarly I'm happy with Sakho at the LCB spot.

I think the RCB spot is up for grabs. Can brings a lot to the party, but he does get caught out with high balls and often loses his man on the back post when a ball is lofted in - he jumps and misses the ball whilst the attacker has dropped off and gets a free chance. He's not a defender tbh. He'll be a great midfielder I think, but as a CB he's limited of course. Great stop gap but I wouldn't want him starting there next season.

So onto Lovren. Needs protection on the side as bottom line he doesn't have the pace of Sakho to compete with wide players. I remember Can struggling with Hazard out wide, but Lovren is even slower. I'm not even gonna debate how good a CB Lovren is - it's irrelevant. Bottom line is he'll never have the pace to play the position of side CB to a high level. If Ibe has an off day with him at RCB, he's screwed. Whilst if Moreno is caught wondering, Sakho can mostly do enough to get away with it.

I do think he could play centrally. But I'd be in no rush to put him there ahead of Skrtel. I've no doubt in my mind though that he will be here next season. And I'd be in no rush to sell him when we'd at best get £8m. Give him another year and see how it goes.

[danperkins]

Lec, as Dan pointed out, when there is decent cover skrtel doesnt go wandering to try and intercept the danger.
this might also be true if/when lovren gets to play centrally with decent cover.

but look at last season when glen johnson was our right back. he was often caught too far up the pitch or not tracking his man. sometimes he would be wrong footed and skrtel [playing as a CB] would have to come steaming out to cover. occasionally skrtel either gets done, or the attacker crosses the ball into the space vacated by skrtel. skrtel was being sold out by his team mate and he was damned in he came, damned if he didnt. he was often slated for his daft positional sense, but he was trying to plug holes others were leaving. same when gerrard was playing as dm too.

skrtels positional sense is helped when he has decent players all doing their own job around him, or he will come flying out, much like lovren.

absolutely spot on mate.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I think Skrtel has done very well in that middle spot and I wouldn't be in a rush to replace him tbh.

Similarly I'm happy with Sakho at the LCB spot.

I think the RCB spot is up for grabs. Can brings a lot to the party, but he does get caught out with high balls and often loses his man on the back post when a ball is lofted in - he jumps and misses the ball whilst the attacker has dropped off and gets a free chance. He's not a defender tbh. He'll be a great midfielder I think, but as a CB he's limited of course. Great stop gap but I wouldn't want him starting there next season.

So onto Lovren. Needs protection on the side as bottom line he doesn't have the pace of Sakho to compete with wide players. I remember Can struggling with Hazard out wide, but Lovren is even slower. I'm not even gonna debate how good a CB Lovren is - it's irrelevant. Bottom line is he'll never have the pace to play the position of side CB to a high level. If Ibe has an off day with him at RCB, he's screwed. Whilst if Moreno is caught wondering, Sakho can mostly do enough to get away with it.

I do think he could play centrally. But I'd be in no rush to put him there ahead of Skrtel. I've no doubt in my mind though that he will be here next season. And I'd be in no rush to sell him when we'd at best get £8m. Give him another year and see how it goes.

Not a case of being a rush to get rid of him, but if there was even the slightest chance of getting a player say like Varane or Laporte, then Skrtel would be the one to drop down to the role of back up for me from our current starting CBs.

Just looking at our current starting XI, putting in a Varane or Laporte for Skrtel and say Pjanic or Nainggolan instead of Allen would give us a very useful first team.

[The_weatherman]

Not a case of being a rush to get rid of him, but if there was even the slightest chance of getting a player say like Varane or Laporte, then Skrtel would be the one to drop down to the role of back up for me from our current starting CBs.

Just looking at our current starting XI, putting in a Varane or Laporte for Skrtel and say Pjanic or Nainggolan instead of Allen would give us a very useful first team.

Definately, we still have areas where we can improve on, those two being the most glaring, as well as a right sided CB to free Can up a bit more.

[kev776]

Lovren will be fine, give him time.

According to us Midge was the worst goalkeeper in the history of the game, now he is world class.

Lovren just needs time and a decent run in the team.

[Lecter]

Mignolet is not and never will be a world class goalkeeper

Hes bang average still

Lovren won't come good either no matter how much we persist with him

[Alex]

Oh well Dejan. At least you have a string of outstanding performances to console yourself.

[McDermotX]

Decent game from him tonight.....stood up for the peno, which was a bit **** alright, but no blame assigned.

[Kenneth]

Yeah, showed he's got some balls. Hope they havent retreated too far back into his body after the miss as he was pretty decent in the game.