The manager - where are you at?

[Ams12]

I think it will deffinately be hard times for him if we get knocked out of the CL on Wednesday, but he may still get some time till Jan. If by then it is still not good enough he may well be a gonner. If it picks up enough he will get till the end of the season. I want him to turn it around for us, but he has to do something different. So what does he change then in our next 2 games?

[CAD]

My point being we're all guessing because that side of things is as clear as mud.If he gets the bullet he's likely to be quite frank about these things and will say more than he can now. I'd like to hear it, then decide if I believe it. He's on record saying he didn't want to buy loads in the summer, just one or two proven quality yet we do the opposite. His book would be interesting for things like that, why exactly that happened. In my opinion he doesn't have full control over these things but he should have, even if that means he signs Williams and Vorm so be it. At least then you can categorically say he lives and dies by who he signs and the results they get. Right now he can justifiably hide behind things like " I wanted player a, they gave me player b and he wasn't good enough".

I think, after watching John Henry in the money ball for the red Sox, that they have a clear cut big data strat when it comes to buying baseball players.

I have no reason to believe they didn't bring it to Liverpool and I think BR was informed from the get go about the way they recruit.

Just my version.

Could also explain a lot as it certainly looks like we bought a few baseball players last window...

[Galb]

I dont want him having full control, we have seen that under Roy and Kenny

I prefer there to be checks and balances

He can try and justify whatever he wants I dont give a **** - Borini and Allen were enough for me to question his judgement throwing in Williams and Vorm only tips the scale further

I know Dion Fanning is not a Rodgers fan (lots of references in his stuff to Rodgers being too pleased with himself) but this piece from last year pretty much sums up the pros and cons to me at a time when we were flying. Confidence in himself, a willingness to take risks with his set-up but also over-confidence and a refusal to see the obvious.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/from-a-limp-to-a-swagger-30221123.html

Oh and the terrifiyng thought that "Liverpool might have Clint Dempsey instead of Daniel Sturridge today and Ashley Williams instead of Martin Skrtel" Add to that buying Borini and Allen and being willing to let Henderson, etc, go and Lec's concerns seem well placed.

It also raise an interesting what if - anyone think we'd have done better with Martinez? Not sure myself but it's a thought.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I know Dion Fanning is not a Rodgers fan (lots of references in his stuff to Rodgers being too pleased with himself) but this piece from last year pretty much sums up the pros and cons to me at a time when we were flying. Confidence in himself, a willingness to take risks with his set-up but also over-confidence and a refusal to see the obvious.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/from-a-limp-to-a-swagger-30221123.html

Oh and the terrifiyng thought that "Liverpool might have Clint Dempsey instead of Daniel Sturridge today and Ashley Williams instead of Martin Skrtel" Add to that buying Borini and Allen and being willing to let Henderson, etc, go and Lec's concerns seem well placed.

It also raise an interesting what if - anyone think we'd have done better with Martinez? Not sure myself but it's a thought.

Williams, as much as I think he is a div, in place of Skrtel would be an upgrade. I would not like to see us get him but he would offer a genuine physical presence, some leadership, aggression, and decent positional play. Things that our senior centre back Skrtel struggles to give on even a semi regular basis.


Pretty much the same list of pros and cons could be said about any manager who is plying his trade at the business end of a a top league. Then if that manager has a slump occur on his watch, the list would appear spot on.

I can remember lots of "respected" journalists having snide digs at Rafa during his first four seasons at the club, and then when the 09/10 season finally rolled around they were full of "I told you so"


Fanning I have no real time for as a journalist. He was the same mix of lavish relish laced with warnings of doom when Ged was in charge. Did the same under Rafa and Kenny if I remember correctly some of his Indo pieces.

It is very easy to come out and say that Manager X is doing really well because of whatever qualities but that the same manager could also do poorly if another set of characteristics come to the fore. In fact by saying something like that you have covered your arse regardless of what happens in the future. If the manager does well then the journalist can say "well I did say in my article that he had the qualities to succeed" and if the manager does poorly the journalist's article had that covered as well.



Rodgers is someone I am having some doubts about. His team selections baffle me at times. His picking of badly underperforming senior players is something that annoys me. The way he seemed to throw away a system that was working for the team (and worked well the few times it was chosen this season).

We are on a bad run at present, a very bad run for a club like Liverpool, but whether it is a character testing bad run or one that is the start of a freefall is the question.


What we need at present are a few things.


We need for the manager to start picking players based on form and not because of how they used to play years ago.

We need the manager to go with a formation that the players know and were effective in.

We need for the manager to address some of the tactically ineptness that has crept in, although I wager if needs one and two were implemented then number three would not be so difficult.


If he does that between now and January, then I suspect that we would see some serious improvement in form, and would put us in a position to bring in difference making reinforcements once the window opened.

We need a striker. We need quality in midfield. What we need in defence might hold until next summer if we can get our midfield and attack improved.

[dww]

The thing I find alarming is the failed shift in strategy to the disjointed system we see now.

Last season we found something that worked out of a desire to fit our two best forwards into the starting XI. This season we have moved completely away from that system despite the fact most of our starting XI were here last season and accustomed to it. That's fine, but you've got to be damn sure it will work better. It's shown no signs of doing so, and the transfers we've made don't really seem to support our new way of working.

So I'm baffled - there is nothing coherent about the way we have gone about things, I struggle to find method to our madness. It's hard not to be concerned about that. You expect to see gradual signs of things coming into fruition, but the longer they fail to surface the more inclined you are to wonder if it's not just all wrong. He deserves time to put things right, but I'd say I have less faith in him right now than 18 months ago.

When he came I was skeptical of Rodgers for a long and he didn't really win me over until he showed his adaptability last season. This season he seems to be reverting to all of the approaches that concerned me initially.

[Maxiedge]

Personally, what's most disappointing, is the 'lack of preparation time' excuse.

There's been fundamental problems in the team that just have not seemed to have been ironed out for a year and a half now. It's true that there isn't much preparation time from game to game but over the course of the whole season these issues need to be addressed. That loss on the weekend was the same as the last 20 minutes vs them last season. This calamity was happening last season even when we were riding high. It's nothing new.

An example would be our attacking corner routine. We've been so poorly setup on corners this season that it's more likely the opposition will score from them on the counter. I would have thought, with Brendan, a forward thinking progressive manager, we would have tried something different by now. We just don't have any threat on corners and always seem to lose out on the clearance/second balls. It was mentioned yesterday, but when you have your holding midfielder taking corners, you're going to get exposed on the break.

I've been on of Brendan's staunchest supporters from the start but the more I think about the situation we're in now, the more infuriated I get

[BubbaZanetti]

I think, after watching John Henry in the money ball for the red Sox, that they have a clear cut big data strat when it comes to buying baseball players.

I have no reason to believe they didn't bring it to Liverpool and I think BR was informed from the get go about the way they recruit.

Just my version.

Could also explain a lot as it certainly looks like we bought a few baseball players last window...

[Roboklopp]

Thought Dion Fanning was a big fan of Rafa?

[badpiggy]

Thought Dion Fanning was a big fan of Rafa?

He was, bigtime. He has some great articles about the rivalry between Rafa and Mourinho.

I think hen thinks that Rodgers is a bit of a snakeoil salesman. He changed his tune a bit last season. But I still think the suspicion lingers. As it does with many of us I'd say - Rodgers Achilles heel is his the fact that in reality, his talk and his opinion of himself don't match his trophy count. Yet. He lacks a certain ruthlessness and savage desire to win at all costs and fills the void with bull****.

[Roboklopp]

Aye, defo had him down as one of the good journos.

[The_weatherman]

He was, bigtime. He has some great articles about the rivalry between Rafa and Mourinho.

I think hen thinks that Rodgers is a bit of a snakeoil salesman. He changed his tune a bit last season. But I still think the suspicion lingers. As it does with many of us I'd say - Rodgers Achilles heel is his the fact that in reality, his talk and his opinion of himself don't match his trophy count. Yet. He lacks a certain ruthlessness and savage desire to win at all costs and fills the void with bull****.

That's actually a good description, he's been selling us bull**** since he came, I could tolerate his lines when it seemed like he knew what he was doing but I think Suarez had so much effect on that team. Also Brendan could afford himself some time to turn small blips around with Swansea but you don't have that time with the bigclubs, the margin is smaller. It doesn't make all that of difference if you finish 9th or 13th but it makes a hell of difference finishing 4th or 8th.

[Dalglish]

Zonal Marking put forward an interesting theory about Rodgers. Basically, the madcap football played by Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling and Coutinho last year was nothing more than an accident given the players involved moving Rodgers from his usual aimless tippy tappy ****e (my words) toward some form of attacking wonderball. Now that Suarez has gone and Sturridge's thighs have exploded, Rodgers reverts to what he knows and to his natural level which is where we are now

A theory only but there is some merit in it

[Shaggy]

Do you have a link?

[fred_plasticine]

Zonal Marking put forward an interesting theory about Rodgers. Basically, the madcap football played by Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling and Coutinho last year was nothing more than an accident given the players involved moving Rodgers from his usual aimless tippy tappy ****e (my words) toward some form of attacking wonderball. Now that Suarez has gone and Sturridge's thighs have exploded, Rodgers reverts to what he knows and to his natural level which is where we are now

A theory only but there is some merit in it

i think it's a nonsense theory.
we played that way because he created a system and a tactical setup that allowed the players to express themselves. however you could see clear patterns of movement both in attack and defense that made it all happen.
to think that the game plan was 'alright lads, go out there and do whatever it is that you do' is both silly and overestimates suarez as much as it underestimates rodgers. it's like saying madrid don't have a specific tactical approach just the genius of their players.

[Dalglish]

Do you have a link?

Not to hand. Heard it discussed on the football ramble. Will see what I can find