[PL] Spurs (A): Post Match

[Exiled_red]

I like the reasoning, but it was technically the right call no matter how fortunate. Sure they miss those close ones plenty of times as well when the benefit just happens to fall the other way. There's no doubt there's an element of guesswork involved as anyone who's ran the line could attest to, even at that level.
Being honest, I got the feeling it was offside as the ball was slipped through, but when there wasn't an immediate stoppage, I had that split second of celebration and it seemed an age before the whistle went.
On replay though, the linesman has the flag up just before or after Lallana slides the ball across.

Pain in the arse, but we'll probably get the benefit at some point in the season.

The suggestion is that he might have been just offside, I think match of the day suggested an inch.

I'm not so fussed about whether it was on or offside or the fact that it was a situation involving us I'm more interested in how the laws of the game are applied and the consistency of officials.

I would question whether linesman who is 30 yards away can say with any certainty that he has seen that Lallana's toe is an inch behind Rose at the speed that the play is occuring, which means that it is guess work. If it is guesswork then that implies some doubt, and in these situations the benefit of the doubt goes to the attacking player meaning that the goal should stand.

I find it difficult to watch the analysis on TV where pundits can use technology to determine exactly whether the player was in an offside position or not using slow motion etc. The analysis then typically follows such that if the player was in an offside position and was flagged offside the decision was correct.

Because in situations which are as tight as the one yesterday you can't blame a linesman for not putting his flag up if it later turns out that he was an inch offside (you can't give what you can't see and you are supposed to give the benefit of the doubt to the attacker) in not flagging you are applying the rules appropriately. This however leaves a seemingly paradoxial position where the player was in an offside position but the linesman was correct in not flagging him offside (because it is too tight to be able to tell).

However if the rules are applied properly you should never see the linesman give someone as offside when they aren't in an offside position, because the linesman can't have been certain that he has seen them in an offside position and if there is any doubt the attacker gets the benefit, therefore to be flagged offside when you aren't in an offside position the official must have been guessing which means that they aren't applyig the rules properly. Based on the number of players that are flagged offside in these situations I would say that there are alot of officials who guess at decisions.

Now maybe the official yesterday was able to see Lallana was an inch offside, and could say with certainty that he was in an offside position - in which case we can have no arguements about it, it was a fantastic decision, if it was a guess then whether it turned out to be right or wrong it was a terrible decision.

[Red_Polo]

The suggestion is that he might have been just offside, I think match of the day suggested an inch.

I'm not so fussed about whether it was on or offside or the fact that it was a situation involving us I'm more interested in how the laws of the game are applied and the consistency of officials.

I would question whether linesman who is 30 yards away can say with any certainty that he has seen that Lallana's toe is an inch behind Rose at the speed that the play is occuring, which means that it is guess work. If it is guesswork then that implies some doubt, and in these situations the benefit of the doubt goes to the attacking player meaning that the goal should stand.

I find it difficult to watch the analysis on TV where pundits can use technology to determine exactly whether the player was in an offside position or not using slow motion etc. The analysis then typically follows such that if the player was in an offside position and was flagged offside the decision was correct.

Because in situations which are as tight as the one yesterday you can't blame a linesman for not putting his flag up if it later turns out that he was an inch offside (you can't give what you can't see and you are supposed to give the benefit of the doubt to the attacker) in not flagging you are applying the rules appropriately. This however leaves a seemingly paradoxial position where the player was in an offside position but the linesman was correct in not flagging him offside (because it is too tight to be able to tell).

However if the rules are applied properly you should never see the linesman give someone as offside when they aren't in an offside position, because the linesman can't have been certain that he has seen them in an offside position and if there is any doubt the attacker gets the benefit, therefore to be flagged offside when you aren't in an offside position the official must have been guessing which means that they aren't applyig the rules properly. Based on the number of players that are flagged offside in these situations I would say that there are alot of officials who guess at decisions.

Now maybe the official yesterday was able to see Lallana was an inch offside, and could say with certainty that he was in an offside position - in which case we can have no arguements about it, it was a fantastic decision, if it was a guess then whether it turned out to be right or wrong it was a terrible decision.

All well and good in theory but in reality this just isn't the case. The lino may have thought he was clearly offside, not an inch. They can't focus on both the ball being played and who has breached the offside line, they rely on a combination of peripheral vision and situational awareness whilst rapidly switching between looking at the player with the ball and the other players. So they are bound to judge it wrong, and that error margin is greater than 'benefit of the doubt' can ever account for. It should certainly reduce the number of goals wrongly disallowed, but it's wrong to assume it should necessarily eliminate them let alone mean that all marginal offsides get called on.

[Nicey]

Apart from that 20 minutes at arsenal we have been pretty poor so far this season.

[Exiled_red]

All well and good in theory but in reality this just isn't the case. The lino may have thought he was clearly offside, not an inch. They can't focus on both the ball being played and who has breached the offside line, they rely on a combination of peripheral vision and situational awareness whilst rapidly switching between looking at the player with the ball and the other players. So they are bound to judge it wrong, and that error margin is greater than 'benefit of the doubt' can ever account for. It should certainly reduce the number of goals wrongly disallowed, but it's wrong to assume it should necessarily eliminate them let alone mean that all marginal offsides get called on.

They are supposed to stay in line with the last defender and therefore constantly look across the line and listen for when the ball is played, in order to judge offside.

[Red_Polo]

They are supposed to stay in line with the last defender and therefore constantly look across the line and listen for when the ball is played, in order to judge offside.

Sound is helpful if your view is obscured or ball too peripheral but it's a handy adjunct to peripheral vision, not a replacement. Difference between speed of sound and light means you'd be getting an awful lot wrong if you completely relied on it. Especially at the highest level where players are way quicker.

[topscorer]

Apart from that 20 minutes at arsenal we have been pretty poor so far this season.

That 20 minutes was exceptional but we've played well in both the Arsenal and Spurs games.

The percentage of possession for the Burnley game means that it's difficult to argue that we played badly.

We lacked guile in that game and that was pretty much the problem for much of last season against defensively setup teams.

We need to improve a lot but to say we have played poorly is a little unfair.

[BG1973]

The suggestion is that he might have been just offside, I think match of the day suggested an inch.

I'm not so fussed about whether it was on or offside or the fact that it was a situation involving us I'm more interested in how the laws of the game are applied and the consistency of officials.

I would question whether linesman who is 30 yards away can say with any certainty that he has seen that Lallana's toe is an inch behind Rose at the speed that the play is occuring, which means that it is guess work. If it is guesswork then that implies some doubt, and in these situations the benefit of the doubt goes to the attacking player meaning that the goal should stand.

I find it difficult to watch the analysis on TV where pundits can use technology to determine exactly whether the player was in an offside position or not using slow motion etc. The analysis then typically follows such that if the player was in an offside position and was flagged offside the decision was correct.

Because in situations which are as tight as the one yesterday you can't blame a linesman for not putting his flag up if it later turns out that he was an inch offside (you can't give what you can't see and you are supposed to give the benefit of the doubt to the attacker) in not flagging you are applying the rules appropriately. This however leaves a seemingly paradoxial position where the player was in an offside position but the linesman was correct in not flagging him offside (because it is too tight to be able to tell).

However if the rules are applied properly you should never see the linesman give someone as offside when they aren't in an offside position, because the linesman can't have been certain that he has seen them in an offside position and if there is any doubt the attacker gets the benefit, therefore to be flagged offside when you aren't in an offside position the official must have been guessing which means that they aren't applyig the rules properly. Based on the number of players that are flagged offside in these situations I would say that there are alot of officials who guess at decisions.

Now maybe the official yesterday was able to see Lallana was an inch offside, and could say with certainty that he was in an offside position - in which case we can have no arguements about it, it was a fantastic decision, if it was a guess then whether it turned out to be right or wrong it was a terrible decision.

If you're on the attacking side and you are ever the last man - i.e no opposition players between you and the goal line, the ball should turn red, the pitch should turn blue and approx 5,000 volts should be fed into the refs underpants.

Problem solved.

[Nicey]

The Referee was horrendous. Every game I watch my number one wish is please do not le the ref influence the game, if you get beat fair and square you can process it, but when you drop points due incompetence on the officials part its a very bitter pill to swallow. Mane got no protection out there, just our luck we get the one ref who does not inact the new rules, and seriously the lineman must have bionic eyeballs to see that part of his right foot was offside, an inch at most .... still I personally think we are looking stronger and stronger, that was a great performance 3 points against Arsenal, 1 against Spurs away is a good return regardless of what we should have got ... Situations like Burnley we are going to have to solve because we will come up against it more than we will come against playing Arsenal away or Spurs away

[Fosterbloke]

Plus all teams will have **** days and get beaten by dross. It's too early to know if Burnley was one of those games or part of an ongoing problem with packed teams.