Champs League v Seville build up and match thread

[Buzzo]

So you're basically agreeing with me. I've certainly not written off the season.

Well, I'm not sure I want to go on record as saying I agree with you

My morale boosting take is: 'it is going to be a battle' (all sport is a battle )

Yours is: 'there's a very good chance we wont make it'

I suspect we have very different management styles

[cream]

Why not?

We definitely have a stronger squad than last season (caveats re we have the same defensive weaknesses) where we finished fourth. I think its going to be a massive battle for top 4, but writing it off this early is pretty defeatist.

We've lost to one of the strongest teams in the league and drawn at home to the biggest competitor in the CL group stage for us.

To put some perspective on our potential, Hoffenheim, who we beat home and away defeated Bayern Munich 2-0 at home at the weekend.

We have issues for sure, frustrating ones, but its too early to throw in the towel.

We've improved our attacking options but look worse in defence. Our back line consists of kids and lost causes, our best player in the back 6 (DM to goalie) is Matip and even he isn't that good.

[calvoboy]

There is a trade off between attacking football and conceding goals

However that overlooks the quality of some of our players (or lack thereof)

Absolutely nobody will convince me that signing a better centrehalf than Lovren, or a better keeper than Mignolet or Karius or a better leftback than Moreno wouldn't improve our goals against tally significantly

In the late 1980s we played some of the most expansive football I have ever seen at Anfield. We had fullbacks who regularly bombed on but the crucial thing was we had 2 or 3 top top quality centrebacks and a half decent keeper we also had midfielders who won huge amounts of second balls so we minimised the trade off. As those centrehalves retired we saw the number of goals we conceded rise

So the solution isn't just tactics it's also having good players

For all the talk about tactics, and even whether we need a DM, it's no co-incidence that it's the same two or three players that keep letting us down with mistakes that cost goals. It's because they just aren't good enough and we all know it.

[Maxiedge]

To be honest, I think we'll be able to judge our current standing much better in the forthcoming weeks. I think that defeat to Man City was really de-moralising for both fans and the players and, all things considered, that maybe wasn't a bad result (against a great side, imo).

[Lecter]

For all the talk about tactics, and even whether we need a DM, it's no co-incidence that it's the same two or three players that keep letting us down with mistakes that cost goals. It's because they just aren't good enough and we all know it.

[calvoboy]

I know he's young but I have concerns about Gomez. Looks a walking yellow card and potential red every game...gives silly fouls away in bad areas.

If Matip gets injured we're ****ed. It's unbelievably frustrating to have our world class attacking play undermined by a dog**** defence.

I think he's a definite CB rather than a full-back. He lacks out-and-out pace, so ends up giving away silly fouls for pull backs etc. I'd give him a go at CB if the opportunity arises (league cup?) to see whether he might be part of the answer there until we sign someone.

[Buzzo]

We've improved our attacking options but look worse in defence. Our back line consists of kids and lost causes, our best player in the back 6 (DM to goalie) is Matip and even he isn't that good.

I think Robertson is an improvement on Left Back given a chance, and the rest are the same as last season.

So yes, we've stagnated.

Not going for another CB is a massive gamble for sure. Klopp must be pretty certain he can get VVD at some point soon.

[Zapater]

Manolas and de Vrij are sitting in Rome whilst Lovren and Klavan are genuine options for us. It pisses me off so much.

I do like Klopp and am not necessarily hugely concerned about the team as I think that things will come improve but when he was being linked with the Liverpool job I desperately wanted Ancelotti, not Klopp for these reasons exactly. I was definitely in the minority. Everyone was having a wankfest about Klopp and I understand why, but he definitely has his shortcomings and the problems that we're having are the type of things we'll need to accept are going to happen sometimes. I'd love us to sign a genuine DM (who did just that and played every week) but that's just not going to happen. We're going to concede a lot of goals, no doubt. We'll have many great weeks, but there are going to be games like the City one and yesterday.

[Zapater]

I'm not a fan of his, but Moreno had a great game yesterday. He's only being criticised because of the result. He could easily have gotten an assist and a goal. He's not the best defensively but he seems to be improving going forward - we know what kind of player he is and need to compensate accordingly when he's on the pitch. The goals conceded weren't due to any fault of his.

[Kenneth]

Can was looking lazy as ****, especially near the start of the game. Why did he back out of challenging for the ball on the edge of our box for their first? Obvious and undeniable conclusion is that his contract talks are going nowhere and he want to leave ASAP

[labourRed]

Can was looking lazy as ****, especially near the start of the game. Why did he back out of challenging for the ball on the edge of our box for their first? Obvious and undeniable conclusion is that his contract talks are going nowhere and he want to leave ASAP

Obviously

[baitman]

Anyone think if we are going to play Moreno , then we need Milner as right back for his no nonsense style and to give some balance

I thought he done very well last season as left back and being his natural side should be easy for him to play there.

i dont think playing milner at RB will do anything to improve the issue of lovren AND moreno on the left.

lovren and milner at LB isnt so bad as one doesnt leave the other too exposed.
maybe robertson will be better defensively than moreno and that may mean lovren isnt cught in no mans land too often...

[Lecter]

I'm not a fan of his, but Moreno had a great game yesterday. He's only being criticised because of the result. He could easily have gotten an assist and a goal. He's not the best defensively but he seems to be improving going forward - we know what kind of player he is and need to compensate accordingly when he's on the pitch. The goals conceded weren't due to any fault of his.

Hes criticised because he cant defend but other than that he was great

[Lecter]

i dont think playing milner at RB will do anything to improve the issue of lovren AND moreno on the left.

lovren and milner at LB isnt so bad as one doesnt leave the other too exposed.
maybe robertson will be better defensively than moreno and that may mean lovren isnt cught in no mans land too often...

Its not just him being in no mans land

The first goal was bread and butter defending, ball across the box and all he has to do is block/clear it

Its the basics with Lovren & Moreno, its always about doing the basics. The best defenders consistently do the basics ie getting goalside and generally being positionally sound, clearing your lines, getting blocks in etc...

[baitman]

Its not just him being in no mans land

The first goal was bread and butter defending, ball across the box and all he has to do is block/clear it

Its the basics with Lovren & Moreno, its always about doing the basics. The best defenders consistently do the basics ie getting goalside and generally being positionally sound, clearing your lines, getting blocks in etc...

oh i agree 100% pal.
there is absolutely no excuse for lovren not being able to put a foot on that ball across the goal. then moreno not getting goal side of the attacker, even though he must have thought lovren would easily get the ball.
the pair of them are a cluster**** and fubar.

i was just making the point that having milner on the right doesnt help out our biggest weakness that is the pair of bollocks that are on the left.