Watford vs Liverpool - Premier League (19/20 - Game 28)

[cream]

That was one of the laziest, sloppiest permances from us under Klopp, seems most of the squad are still on winter break. I'd say this game should act as a wake up call but that should've been the case after Athletico and West Ham.

The Athletico game can't come soon enough, the fear of getting knocked out might get us playing again.

[Yozza]

It was a **** day at the office, no need to pin it on one player.

We dust off and win the ****ing league.

[Kenneth]

That was one of the laziest, sloppiest permances from us under Klopp, seems most of the squad are still on winter break. I'd say this game should act as a wake up call but that should've been the case after Athletico and West Ham.

The Athletico game can't come soon enough, the fear of getting knocked out might get us playing again.

Sometimes teams play badly and that's inevitable, but it was noticeable that they were first to so many loose balls, more committed in tackles, and our intensity wasn't really there. It's not usual that the opposition looks like they're trying harder than us. I think losing might well focus a few minds again.

[Exiled_red]

I'm not trying to be provocative at all mate. He definitely lost the physical battle with Deeney but I've watched the three goals and I can't pin any of them on lovren. But interested to hear how people can. He was very lucky not to have VAR give the pen against him.

He didn't make mistakes that lead directly to goals but IMO his presence in the side (or the absence of Gomez) had an influence on the game and the result for two reasons.

1. If you watch how we have played recently Gomez has tended to play deeper than VVD when we have been attacking, as a result when teams have played balls over the top Gomez has been in a good position and has the pace to recover and more often than not got a challenge in that has either cleared the danger or done enough to put the striker off. Today Lovren basically played level with VVD, so was in a worse starting position and he lacks the pace to get back and make a challenge. Whether this was a deliberate tactic today (not sure why it would be) or if it's just the way that Lovren plays,maybe Klopp should have changed the way we setup to suit Lovren.

2. This might sound more like a direct dig at Lovren but for me if you are a Watford forward and you see Lovren is playing that gives you more confidence you know he has got a mistake in him and you press him more than you might have done otherwise. He had a horrible 10 mins or so before half time where he should probably have conceded a pen and dove in making a couple of stupid challenges, seeing that builds confidence further and puts doubts in the minds of our players. You can bet that Watford spoke about that at HT.

Was he the sole reason we lost? No, everyone was terrible, was he a factor? Yes. IMO him being in rather than Gomez was a significant factor, how much of that was him as a player and how much was that the tactics didn't suit him is up for debate. IMO if Gomez plays we don't lose 3-0. Do we still lose? who knows, probably, same with Matip. Would I play Matip ahead of him, yes if Matip is fit. Seemingly that wasn't a option today.

I am not blaming him for the defeat. But you only have to watch him to know that he is miles behind not just VVD, but also Gomez at Matip. He's probably as good a 4th choice defender as we can hope for but tonight showed for me how wide the gap is between him and the others.

[Kenneth]

He should move on, it's obvious that he's 4th choice and 4th best of our CBs and that he had anothet bad game today. But there's no way our players just decide to position themselves where they fancy rather than what they've worked on all week. If they did they would get played. And there is no way I'm accepting the presence of Dejan on the pitch as an excuse for any of the performances from any of our players today. Missing passes, intercepted passes, mis-controls, balls over the top going straight into touch, getting out muscled and out paced, the reasons we actually lost. There can be complicated explanations, but it wasn't good enough from players with such ability. It was a really poor team performance from start to finish.

[McDermotX]

He should move on, it's obvious that he's 4th choice and 4th best of our CBs and that he had anothet bad game today. But there's no way our players just decide to position themselves where they fancy rather than what they've worked on all week. If they did they would get played. And there is no way I'm accepting the presence of Dejan on the pitch as an excuse for any of the performances from any of our players today. Missing passes, intercepted passes, mis-controls, balls over the top going straight into touch, getting out muscled and out paced, the reasons we actually lost. There can be complicated explanations, but it wasn't good enough from players with such ability. It was a really poor team performance from start to finish.

I'm actually reminded of the Sheff Utd game a little while back, where Chris Wilder was in awe of the fact that every single one of our players was fighting, doing the basics, 100% effort. Didn't matter that we were on top of not just the league, but European football in general. Didn't matter that it was considered an expected victory, it had to be fought for like every other meaningful game. No ideas above of our station etc

Complete contrast against Watford.

We looked a player down on that pitch today.

[Exiled_red]

He should move on, it's obvious that he's 4th choice and 4th best of our CBs and that he had anothet bad game today. But there's no way our players just decide to position themselves where they fancy rather than what they've worked on all week. If they did they would get played. And there is no way I'm accepting the presence of Dejan on the pitch as an excuse for any of the performances from any of our players today. Missing passes, intercepted passes, mis-controls, balls over the top going straight into touch, getting out muscled and out paced, the reasons we actually lost. There can be complicated explanations, but it wasn't good enough from players with such ability. It was a really poor team performance from start to finish.

Then it is a very strange tactical decision that I can't see the benefit of, for me swapping Gomez out for Lovren means that the defensive line either has to play deeper or you have to set up such that VVD is the one covering. Lovren is so much slower than Gomez, any forward with decent any amount of pace is going to beat Lovren over 30 or 40 yards. It's not even as though Lovren offers anything more going forward to make it worth the risk.

[BG1973]

It was Fab that lost the runner who assisted the goal. As for the third

Thought it wss van dyk who didn't put a challenge in and let the cross come in. Either was lovren wasn't to blame, he occupied deeney which was the best he could do in the box.

[frank the tank]

I'm actually reminded of the Sheff Utd game a little while back, where Chris Wilder was in awe of the fact that every single one of our players was fighting, doing the basics, 100% effort. Didn't matter that we were on top of not just the league, but European football in general. Didn't matter that it was considered an expected victory, it had to be fought for like every other meaningful game. No ideas above of our station etc

Complete contrast against Watford.

We looked a player down on that pitch today.

I think our players are running on empty.

It wouldn't surprise me to see us exit both the cup and the champions league in the next 2 weeks.

[Harv]

The simple fact of the matter is we've looked awful going forward for weeks now. We've been managing games and just scraping through numerous times in the last 20 minutes.

Hopefully this was a wake up call that they all badly need. We looked like we hadn't kicked a ball in months last night. Every single one of them was shocking. Some of those touches and passes were amateur level. The ball was bouncing off some of them.

Bobby had a really nice patch of games around the WCC but has now regressed to his fatter, slower twin Slobby Firmino. He needs to get his mojo back because he has been absolutely dire for a number of weeks now, loose passes everywhere, poor touches, not pressing like usual. When he's off form the whole front three is off too, he's clearly our barometer. Don't know if he needs a rest, but he looks really slow and cumbersome to me.

Lovren? He's ****. He's always been **** and he clearly makes everyone else nervous as **** out there because nobody knows what he's going to do. You can visibly see the chaos he causes out there, players that have been playing like world class defenders all of a sudden start bumping into each other, Allison starts fumbling the ball etc. It's him. It has to be. This has happened before. Deeney the balloon headed prick absolutely owned Lovren. Why is he allowed to try man mark big brute CF's? His track record with them is horrendous. He was all over the place last night.

Don't know what's gotten into Gini either. He's been anonymous for weeks too. Like being down a player in midfield. Its certainly looked that way last night. Surely we can't be that heavy legged. They've just had a two week break and Klopp managed them through January really well i thought.

[danperkins]

It was crazy to see so many players have utter stinkers but it has been like that got awhile now. I'm sick to death of the records talk and I'm delighted it's over. The last 4 games have been piss poor and this was coming. I really hope this is the kick in the arse we need to get back to our best.

East to single out Dejan, who does absolutely cause panic in our defence but virgil and Trent were just as bad. Personally I think Fabinho was been dreadful since coming back into the side and imo that position that Ox/Keita /Mini are vying for is one that we can definitely improve on.

Sky will shut up about records now thank god and it pulls us back down to earth.

[Harv]

Virgil and TAA were bad...but IMO it was because all of a sudden they have the walking disaster Lovren next to them. Who know when he's going to fizz a pass at your stomach from 3 yards away or shank a clearance straight up into the air, or **** himself in possession and play a half strength pass to you or the keeper leaving you with no time and an attacker bearing down on you at full speed.

[Buzzo]

Personally I think Fabinho was been dreadful since coming back into the side.

I agree. Also, our run of clean sheets is exactly the games he missed and Hendo played DM. Fab has been way below par this season, his passing has been very sloppy. Hendo will never be underappreciated again, Fab can't match his energy.

Overall though, it's the first defeat in 14 months, it had to happen sooner or later, I'm sure we will see a good response from all of them. Winning that many games has been surreat. What an achievement, from an incredible team.

Also agree that not worrying about the unbeaten records will be a weight off everyone s mind, it had become a distraction, and no coincidence that each time we've dropped points has been after 17 then 18 wins in a row. This is a good time to regroup, with some massive games coming up.

[danperkins]

Lovren was abysmal and does cause that chaos on times but we lost as a collective. IMO this is our blip, every team goes through one at some point in a season. What is important now is to bounce back against Bournemouth and Athletico. It was a bitter pill to swallow but I am glad it is over and Sky and the papers can focus on something else. We have been concentrating on one game at a time but the incessant media coverage of records imo is very distracting. That is put to bed now and the lads can get back to focusing on the next game.

I think there was too many shocking performances last night to single out one person.

[danperkins]

I agree. Also, our run of clean sheets is exactly the games he missed and Hendo played DM. Fab has been way below par this season, his passing has been very sloppy.

Overall though, it's the first defeat in 14 months, it had to happen sooner or later, I'm sure we will see a good response from all of them. Winning that many games has been surreat. What an achievement, from an incredible team.

Also agree that not worrying about the unbeaten records will be a weight off everyone s mind, it had become a distraction, and no coincidence that each time we've dropped points has been after 17 then 18 wins in a row. This is a good time to regroup, with some massive games coming up.

great post and absolutely spot on imo.