Man U away

[dom9]

So what's the solution?

I have no idea.

[RichC]

Not sure there is one.

The broadcasters, PL, UEFA, FIFA, the clubs and of course the fans all have their own agendas with the fans being at the bottom of the pile whilst also everything being built off them.

Until football moves away from being about money generation there’s no solution IMO and those all listed above bar the fans only really care about the money that’s generated so unless fans vote with their eyeballs and stop watching en masse (which of course won’t happen) you can’t see it changing.

The uproar about the ESL from the likes of Sky the PL etc.. is all about the protection of their hold on the revenue football generates nothing more .

[Doc_Piptorious]

So what's the solution?

I'm not sure there is one tbh. It was why I was interested in hearing if Dom had something in his head that he thought was a potential good idea or even a direction he thought might be a good one.


Every now and then you see things that on paper look like they would be steps in the right direction.


I thought FFP was one such step. I thought that would be a fantastic change to the game if it was implemented correctly. It seemed the sort of thing that if done right could be the basis for other moves like maybe a proper vetting system for those looking to own clubs. Maybe a proper and legally binding set of ethics with regards to how clubs would be run.


However we live in a media driven era where faux outrage fuelled by fake statements over a proposed new competition is more newsworthy and generated far more stamping of feet and efforts to thwart it than real issues within the game (and society) like racism.


I made a throwaway comment during the thread where I took a line from the film Aliens saying we should nuke it from orbit as that would be the only way to be sure.

Tbh I think the only way to "solve" the issues in the game at this point would be to terminated the sport altogether at professional level.

For me the problems are like cancer, and in the case of the professional game it has gone untreated for far too long and we are at a point where we either allow the spread to continue until it reaches an inevitable tipping point and the game as it is dies, or we try to treat the infection aggressively and we watch the game head towards the same tipping point but at a slower more comfortable to watch rate.


There are two many bodies and organisations with vested interests for there ever to be one clear view on what should be done. There are too many loopholes to get around doing the "right" thing.

For me Football is going the same way as Pro Boxing, just that boxing is much further along in it's terminal decline. Football being so much bigger financially will be like any large animal that is dying and take a long time to go but I think it will eventually die. Now whether "dying" means it become a smaller sport with smaller audiences/finances or whether it means it becomes even more fractured with lots of breakaway groups/leagues, that is up for debate.

[red g]

So what's the solution?

Not that it will ever happen but players wages are not sustainable under the current model. When clubs are paying such high percentage of turnover on wages its mot so much greedits survival that pushes clubs to try new and often stupid/desperate ideas to increase turnover . Slashing wages would help massively.

[dom9]

I'm not even convinced by the German model.

Who does it work for? Well, it works for Bayern as they walk the league every year.

It kinda works for Dortmund if they're happy with their lot as being perennial bridesmaids. The best of the rest, but still a feeder club to the super clubs.

Anyone else?

[Fosterbloke]

Let's be honest here.

We can all wax lyrical and pontificate about the rhetoric, but we're all part of the problem.

All of us.

If you've ever bought a Sky or other sports TV subscription, you're complicit.

If you buy the merch which changes throughout the season, you're complicit.

If you have never done any of that and you watch via streams, you're a cheapskate who is also complicit in lining some gangsters pockets on the back of the greed.

The money we collectively have funnelled through Sky and others has resulted in many of the best players on the planet playing in the Premier League and indeed LFC.

So which way do you want it?

It's easy to throw stones from your ivory tower, but you need to convince me that you're not part of the problem.

BTW, I've quoted your post but my point is aimed at every single one of us.

I don't buy merch, I don't pay for a subscription (it's free from my ISP), I don't pay for tickets.

It's a massive rip off.

[Fosterbloke]

Pick a non-league side local to Liverpool and we can start supporting them.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I'm not even convinced by the German model.

Who does it work for? Well, it works for Bayern as they walk the league every year.

It kinda works for Dortmund if they're happy with their lot as being perennial bridesmaids. The best of the rest, but still a feeder club to the super clubs.

Anyone else?

The German model works, imo, in that it gives clubs a better chance to avoid financial mismanagement and the like by owners compared to what happens in other leagues, but, as you rightly pointed out it, it does not level the playing field between the financial powerhouse and the rest of the league.

You look at the Bundesliga compared to other leagues and the clubs seem to have less brushed with administrations and the like.


It is far from a perfect system though even though the concept of something more levelling based upon it would be interesting.



It would in a way be like if FFP had come in properly and was implemented in full. It would have prevented clubs from being finanically doped but it would also have meant the clubs that currently earn more would still earn more and thus would be able to spend more as they would be spending what they earned.

[Exiled_red]

You can look at it in a variety of ways, we are where we are because of certain peoples/clubs/companies/organisations greed. The PL started by getting the top league to 'break away' from the rest of the football league essentially in order to keep a bigger share of the revenue. Sky played a massive role in that and they largely made their money and name off the back of broadcasting football (yes they do other stuff and other sports but without football they wouldn't be close to what they are). I am sure that in Sky's view they made English football a more attractive proposition the whole 'best league in the world' stuff that we constantly hear and I guess that is true, the early 90's prior to the PL all the best players wanted to play in Spain or Italy now they want to come to the Premier League and Sky largely have made the PL the 'product' that it is, and that's all the stuff that they will focus on.

The issue is that in order to do that they have been charging fans alot of money to watch the games on TV, the match going fans if they want to go to games are being forced to go at different times so that about 5 or 6 games a weekend can be broadcast. The same happened with the CL it was changed from the European Cup to the CL because that made it a more attractive 'product'. Those two largely started off the commericalisation of football, and as the revenue has grown more and more and the clubs have had to follow suit.

To be honest the whole thing has now completely got out of hand not just money but every aspect of the game. I get Dom's point about everyone being complicit but we have got to where we are by taking small steps each on their own doesn't seem that bad but together have made the game unrecognisable. Take televised games, if you had said 25-30 years ago there would only be about 3 top flight games played at 3pm on a Saturday people would have opposed it. The reason we have that now is it has been done slice by slice, it started off at 1 a weekend or something being moved for TV, a few years later it was a couple of games a week, now we're at the point where it's 6 or 7. Same thing with sponsorship you had a shirt sponsor, then you had ground or stand sponsors, shirt sleeve sponsors, communications partners, official car, chocolate bar etc of the club, competition, FA or whatever when you think about it it's nuts.

The issue is how do you get the genie back into the bottle? The answer is that you can't it will carry on until it comes crashing down. The generation of fans now have grown up with this they won't accept not being able to have the best players or not being able to compete or whatever. Look at our fans, in response to Henry's apology over the superleague he was getting spammed with 'buy Mbappe' or 'buy Haaland' comments, Man Utd fans aren't happy with the crazy amount of money they have spent over recent years because of the lack of success, there are dozens of examples.

[Mark79]

I don't buy merch, I don't pay for a subscription (it's free from my ISP), I don't pay for tickets.

It's a massive rip off.

I appreciate that games are often in the middle of the night in Oz, but the disparity in pricing for the Premier League’s ‘global audience’ is crazy.

Minimum £50+pm in the UK for just the televised schedule vs literally every game being given away with broadband subscriptions in other territories?

[fidget]

I have no idea.

Neither have I
I'm firmly in the camp of lining "gangsters" pockets until somebody comes up with a solution though. Won't be holding my breath.
In an ideal world though legislation making all clubs not-for-profit organisations would be a start.

[Fosterbloke]

I appreciate that games are often in the middle of the night in Oz, but the disparity in pricing for the Premier League’s ‘global audience’ is crazy.

Minimum £50+pm in the UK for just the televised schedule vs literally every game being given away with broadband subscriptions in other territories?

Wow I pay less than that for my broadband and football together!

[Kenneth]

The German model works, imo, in that it gives clubs a better chance to avoid financial mismanagement and the like by owners compared to what happens in other leagues, but, as you rightly pointed out it, it does not level the playing field between the financial powerhouse and the rest of the league.

You look at the Bundesliga compared to other leagues and the clubs seem to have less brushed with administrations and the like.


It is far from a perfect system though even though the concept of something more levelling based upon it would be interesting.



It would in a way be like if FFP had come in properly and was implemented in full. It would have prevented clubs from being finanically doped but it would also have meant the clubs that currently earn more would still earn more and thus would be able to spend more as they would be spending what they earned.

But ultimately, there is only so much you can do to restrict a market before it gets knocked down by courts. Forcing the sale of shares, the diluting of shareholding, restrictions on investment, dividends, salaries etc etc are all legally problematic, and especially so when looking at pan-European changes where multiple jurisdictions are involved.

[dom9]

Neither have I

I'm firmly in the camp of lining "gangsters" pockets until somebody comes up with a solution though. Won't be holding my breath.

In an ideal world though legislation making all clubs not-for-profit organisations would be a start.

Private equity, hedge funds and gangsters it is then.

[Kenneth]

It’s basically how we become a successful club. In fact the current model is essentially the same as it was in the 19th century. It used to be the richest guy in the town/city, now it’s the richest in the world. None of this really seems new, it’s just the scale that’s changed.