2022/23 Season

[danperkins]

Happy New Year Dan, you've cheered me up no end...

[danperkins]

Basically, itÂ’s the managers fault and thereÂ’s no escaping that imo. Lack of funds would be an excuse for us failing to topple city, but when we keep spending good money on attackers and relying on unreliable players elsewhere, the squad imbalance is down to the management team. The refusal to change tactics in light of declining team quality is also poor management.

Then Pepijn Lijnders writes a book about great they are. I think complacency and hubris sum it up.

I think it would be terrible for us, but the best option for Klopp and co would be to start from scratch with a new project elsewhere.

Klopp has to take some of the blame no doubts, I don't think there's any getting away from it, given the situation we find ourselves in. Nobody should be immune from criticism regardless of what they have done for the club. Love what Klopp has done for the club & I don't think there is any other manager who could have achieved so much given our non oil circumstances.

We are now currently in the situation because of negligence in the transfer market. You could argue that we were negligent last season too. We've been patting ourselves on the back for years about how shrewd we have been in the transfer market and pointed out just how bad the likes of Arsenal & Man United have been. By not prioritising or failing to recognise the midfield area that has been the main identifier of us under Klopp, in which these players are required to exist in a grueling, punishing system that for it to be successful... it is absolutely imperative that these players be of a certain physical requirement. Our recent success comes from "the engine room" which allowed freedom to the forwards (world class) to do their thing & protection and a buffer for the defence (world class) to do their thing. That's not ignoring how much work our forwards did either to press from the front but that is what the Henderson/Gini/Milner/Fabinho midfield gave us over the last few years. Henderson & Milner's legs have gone, Fab has looked shot to pieces for 12 to 18 months & Gini left and was never replaced with a like for like. These things have not happened over night, there was ample time for it to be addressed.

We have no identity and everything that has made us what we are under Klopp, doesn't seem to exist anymore. It's all well and good bringing in guile and craft to break down low block sides but you have to keep the core of what has made us so successful under Klopp & we didn't do that. I do agree that with the current personnel a change in tactics should have happened. At least make us a wee bit harder to play against at the very minimum.

[Rafa Justice]

One injury prone midfielder (Thiago) signed since Fabinho in 2018.

Negligence is one word for that.

[Scratch]

One injury prone midfielder (Thiago) signed since Fabinho in 2018.

Negligence is one word for that.

But on the flip side, since 2018 what have we won with the midfield we have, and how close have we come to winning more? It is only this season (and maybe the tail end of last season) that the lack of midfield options has become more prevalent. But reaching 3 finals last year, and being pipped to the post in the league by a dodgy handball decision says to me that we weren't negligent, we were just happy with the options we had.

[labourRed]

One injury prone midfielder (Thiago) signed since Fabinho in 2018.

Negligence is one word for that.

Skint, is another.

[Exiled_red]

For me there are a couple of problems, the first is the ageing of players or the failure to recognise the impact that the way we play has on them. When we won the league we had Henderson (30), Wijnaldum (29), Fabinho (26), Ox (26), Keita (25) with support from Milner (34), Lallana (32) and Jones (19). The midfield hasn't evolved, swap Wijnaldum for Thiago (1 year difference in age) and Lallana for Elliott (Elliott was here at the time but wasn't involved in first team) and that's where we are at the moment. The big difference is everyone is 3 years older and (those who have been playing) have a hell of alot more football in their legs. Just looking at things on a like for like basis, by now Ox and Keita should have become regulars in the side alongside Fabinho, Henderson and Thiago should have been doing the senior pro roles that Milner and Lallana were doing. The reason this hasn't happened is because Keita and Ox can't be relied on, they can't stay fit and to be honest it's questionable whether they would be good enough even when they are. The frustrating thing for me is that this isn't news, it's been obvious to anyone watching the club in the last 3-5 years, both should have been moved on and replaced a couple of years ago.

The second issue is the title winning midfield was workman like, it wasn't really creative it controlled the game and let the forwards win us the games, the criticism it came in for was a lack of creativity, we replaced Wijnaldum with Thiago (a more creative player) and Elliott who has been playing alot is a creative player, and we are getting carved open. IMO to get back to where we were we probably need to sacrifice some creativity for solid workman like players, it might not be the prettiest but it will IMO make us more effective, at the moment it feels like the way to do that might be with two no 6's rather than two no 8's but we don't have the players to do that.

[Rich]

Been thinking about the midfield and one element which I think has been overlooked a bit is the central striker roll in our midfield operates - in both attack and defence.

Take Firmino from a couple of years ago or Mane when he switched into the middle last season.

From a defence point of view they'd be the player hassling the deep laying opposition midfielder, giving them less time on the ball to play a good pass. That meant the opposition were more likely to play a rushed or bad pass. Both of these players were great a turnovers as well. So we don't have that with Nunez.

From an attacking point of view, again both players much better dropping deeper to receive the ball, attacking at times like a midfield 10 playter. Sure didn't work all the time but was effective having another deeper central player. Nunez doesn't really do that all that often, likely to operate on the edge of the last man instead.

It means not only have we lost out on some legs and power in midfield but we've lost a quasi-fourth midfielder by having an out and out striker instead.

No fault of Nunez but we've shifted and changed some of the chess pieces and the resulting formation is leaving too many issues for the opposition to exploit - particularly if they're fast and strong through the midfield.

[Mr Pink]

Keita and Ox can't be relied on, they can't stay fit and to be honest it's questionable whether they would be good enough even when they are. The frustrating thing for me is that this isn't news, it's been obvious to anyone watching the club in the last 3-5 years, both should have been moved on and replaced a couple of years ago.

Couldn’t agree more. They both need to be shipped out asap. Both had more than enough chances.

[Mark79]

Of course. Obviously.

[ame]https://twitter.com/_ChrisBascombe/status/1613571593459859456[/ame]

[Buzzo]

Ffs.

[Irishnev]

Joyce as well

[ame="https://twitter.com/timessport/status/1613567883174363140"]https://twitter.com/timessport/status/1613567883174363140[/ame]

[BigChief]

Effing ****ing hell.

[spud_gun]

Kloop ought to be used to Nunez missing this season..

[red g]

Kloop ought to be used to Nunez missing this season..

[Fivex]

Time for the Doak