Spurs Away thread

[Liverpool]

I reckon the VAR fella might have made a geninue mistake, and was almost cocky in sending it back to the match official. They've clearly been told to speed up decisions and he thought it was a nice simple one to get his average time down.

He's panicked and froze when he clocked his mistake, not knowing what to do. There's no rule book for such an error, there will be one now.

Webb will come out on his sky review show during the internationals and take the blame that the processes arent robust and strong enough and thats his fault, in an attempt to speed up play I've ****ed up the basic principles of VAR. Soz to Liverpool, i'm not resigning though.

[Mr Pink]

Thing is, even if they were to edit the audio- I can’t think of anything they could script that would make it excusable. Best case for them they make themselves look a little better, but still pretty bad.

And worst case, if they got caught fudging it, then heads would seriously need to roll. Surely if it’s so bad it would need to be edited, they’d be better off just sticking to their guns and say that it’s policy that it doesn’t get released, or else say it was accidentally deleted.

I just hope that the club don’t back down. Our next statement should be appealing to other clubs for support- it’s not for our benefit, it’s for all clubs.. obviously we’re not gonna get given points or the game replayed or whatever, we just want them to be held accountable and to see some sort of reform.

I reckon it’s not just about the ref/var on the day either- feel like we should be booing the ref every game now. This is systemic and they all deserve it. Do they announce the refs names with the team sheets? Would be good to hear 50,000 people booing in anfield, if they do, every game, for a while. And some chants of “**** VAR”.

[Fivex]

It takes 3 minutes to redact an audio file, they don’t need 3 days for that.

They’re prepping for the inevitable mammothian fallout imo

[Fivex]

Pick one

1. Increasingly regular gross failure of duty caused by poor implementation of technology and/or human error and/or a misguided need to cover their asses rather than do the right thing

5/2

2. Cells of PGMOL ‘mates’ all scratching each others backs, unilaterally influencing results of games for either bribes or just to favour their own teams

3/1

3. Systemic corruption throughout PGMOL and potentially a wider conspiracy throughout various arms of football governance/media rights owners

33/1

[Liverpool]

I couldnt believe skys half time lack of coverage and as Goldbridge/Ben Foster (who'd have thought ) VAR have been on the blower to sky to not go overboard as they are investigating blah blah

Sky also seem to have the rights to the PGMOL VAR review programme so theyll wait until then to get the footage which will be massive for them

I dont think PGMOL will want to start having to release stuff for mob after each round of games, theyll do it on their terms

[Fivex]

So the theory about England not being in the VAR room at the time might be a simple explanation if you think about it.

He ****s off for a quick **** or a line, thought he’d be fine keeping his headset on (cos he’d still be able to respond if anything did suddenly happen), but then had to blag it cos the ref didn’t communicate the request properly and he couldn’t see the screens.

By releasing their statement in such a rush they’ve forgone a great excuse - there was a medical emergency, the whole room was distracted at that point in time & England got it badly wrong. But imo by using the phrase “significant human error” already, it wouldn’t be believable cos they could have simply said medical emergency and we’d all be saying fair enough then, it’s just one of those things.

[Fosterbloke]

Yeah that’s quite insightful. Specifically about Neville having a horse in the race.

I’ve never minded him tbh, he’s just a passionate fan. We need those for all teams, and he’s not too much of a dick win, lose or draw.

He might be a bit Alan Partridge but I love that, and yes he does speak a lot of sense on many football related subjects.

[RedReet]

12th man was the crowd, not the ref? How they can punish him, he's said nothing wrong

It was probably that 'oh when the Spurs' drone which put the VAR team to sleep after a long flight, hence here we are.

[vlahka]

As if you cant roll a game back after 7 seconds. Just pretend its a delayed free kick that advantage played didnt pan out. Or an offside that happened half a minute ago that the linesman didnt bother flagging till a shot on goal happened.

[Exiled_red]

Thing is, even if they were to edit the audio- I can’t think of anything they could script that would make it excusable. Best case for them they make themselves look a little better, but still pretty bad.

And worst case, if they got caught fudging it, then heads would seriously need to roll. Surely if it’s so bad it would need to be edited, they’d be better off just sticking to their guns and say that it’s policy that it doesn’t get released, or else say it was accidentally deleted.

I just hope that the club don’t back down. Our next statement should be appealing to other clubs for support- it’s not for our benefit, it’s for all clubs.. obviously we’re not gonna get given points or the game replayed or whatever, we just want them to be held accountable and to see some sort of reform.

I reckon it’s not just about the ref/var on the day either- feel like we should be booing the ref every game now. This is systemic and they all deserve it. Do they announce the refs names with the team sheets? Would be good to hear 50,000 people booing in anfield, if they do, every game, for a while. And some chants of “**** VAR”.

I don’t think they really would re-record it, butI wouldn't be surprised if they selectively edited it. It depends what is in it and whether that is consistent with what they want the story to be. I wouldn't be surprised if there are unprofessional comments made about teams, managers or players that could be interpreted as bias, which they wouldn't want to get out, similarly anything that suggests that there might be issues with the system itself. Also depends how prepared they are to pin all the blame on Darren England.

[vlahka]

Should release video of what was happening in there at the time since they have cameras. Did they laugh after their screw up? Were they watching cat videos on their phones at the time? Laughing as they showed each other their bank balances after the recent trip? What were they doing.

[Exiled_red]

https://youtu.be/eRScuxyQHkg?feature=shared

Dermott Gallagher insists the ref didn't know until half time, and puts out the party line on what could and couldn't be done in the laws of the game.

Interesting point from Warnock that Webb has previous for replaying a match after a referee error albeit in a different competition

[Cerbie]

https://youtu.be/eRScuxyQHkg?feature=shared

Dermott Gallagher insists the ref didn't know until half time, and puts out the party line on what could and couldn't be done in the laws of the game.

Interesting point from Warnock that Webb has previous for replaying a match after a referee error albeit in a different competition

How can he know? Has he heard the all the comms from from 34 min to the 45+4 to HT?

In claiming he doesn’t know what “ sporting integrity being undermined” means he is being entirely disingenuous and proving he is protecting the PGMOL old boys club. That Warnock gets him to engage in a conversation about it clearly demonstrates that.

Does anyone know a ho is in charge of the stadium screens to inform the crowds of VAR decisions? Is that the 4th official or someone else? And why did VAR not see OFFSIDE on their screens and yell STOP to Hopper??

If it was Oliver, Klopp would have told him it was onside and been able to see it on the replays that they have in the dugout. The game doesn’t restart until that is shown, so that’s another opportunity to question the decision that was missed.

[Corndog]

I’m surprised by some of the theorising and the surprise itself from fans.

It’s most likely just what they claim it to be, basic human error. The technology that enables VAR isn’t the problem in my opinion, but it’s not perfect because it still relies on human decision making behind it.

Referees are human and just as in every other industry, there have been some mighty **** ups that come from simple basic misunderstandings or wrong assumptions made on the fly when decision making.

It clearly ****ed Liverpool over in that game but overall the technology is likely a net positive. There are now many goals ruled out correctly for very slim margins that from the perspective of a human linesman in the past, would have been given.

[Kenneth]

Humans are human, which is why you design systems with human elements in a way that mitigates human error. Eg. If a surgeon requests a piece of equipment, the person handing it to them will repeat the name of the item as they hand it over instead of simply saying ‘here you go’. It makes them far more likely to identify an error before it becomes problematic. These kind of protocols exist in all walks of life. by design. Having the VAR say ‘check complete, on-field decision stands’ or such like is an example of poor system design as it opens the door for misunderstanding and miscommunication. The linesman flagging was human error, the failure of VAR was a systemic failure and ‘human error, mistakes happen’ is not an appropriate response. You analyse the reason for failure, identify and implement improvements as soon as you can to prevent future failure.