Florian Wirtz - Welcome to LFC

[fidget]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0_Vh9JQ3XY"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0_Vh9JQ3XY[/ame]

[Doc_Piptorious]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0_Vh9JQ3XY

Put proper pace outside him on the left and just that one extra option other than Frimpong and Ekitike would see his quick passing dragging teams all over the place and even more space being created for the quicker players.

He is elite in the final third for finding players, we just need to make sure we have finishers around him to take advatage of that.

Is eye catching how often he finds Ekitike on the left and nobody else is rushing to get in the box in place of Ekitike.

[danperkins]

Big improvement in his output which is fantastic but also his general play, he does tail off in the last half hour or so but so does the rest of the team. Credit where it's due and some real glimpses of the player we know he can be.

[Buzzo]

3 goals in the league now. And a couple of assists. He’s almost caught Saka.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Big improvement in his output which is fantastic but also his general play, he does tail off in the last half hour or so but so does the rest of the team. Credit where it's due and some real glimpses of the player we know he can be.

Think it has become more than just glimpses. What we need now is for the players he is finding again and again with the ball to start doing more with that extra second or two that is bought for them with quick passing.

The three players that seem to be on the same wavelength as him in terms of give and go on the ball are Ekitike, Frimpong (no surprise there as they linked up a crazy amount at Leverkusen) and Jones.

We need a few more to get to that level of expecting the ball from Wirtz and then doing something quickly when they receive it in space in the final third instead of getting it, taking a touch or two and going sideways.


Does have me thinking we are really unlucky that Isak has been so injury hit as a front three of


-------------Iask---------
----Ekitike-------Wirtz----



With a solid midfield trio behind them could cause chaos.


Let Wirtz and Ekitike just criss cross behind Isak and use Isak as an outlet, let one, sometimes two from the CM trio act as runners/facilitators from deeper and let Frimpong be the pace outlet on the right.

Not sure if Salah could come in and play in that Isak position between now and the end of the season as it would still require mobility and pressing.

Maybe Chiesa could share the role with him until the summer.


Then add proper reinforcements into the set up (new CB (or two), new mobile physical ball carrying but also ball playing CM and a new attacking player that can cause problems with pace along with dribbling and crossing.


Think for maybe 65 minutes of so at the weekend you could see clearly where we are clicking and also where we need that new piece or two to be in order to get the best out of what was clicking.

Drop say someone like Diomende into Saturday's team instead of Gakpo and maybe someone like Rovella or Elliot Anderson as a CM option, and just those two changes alone add serious pace, directness, physicality and ball playing ability. Suddenly other teams have an awful lot more to worry about with only two changes.


Does not change the fact we would still need the other reinforcements of course, CBs especially, but think the fixing/improving of our middle and final third issues are not as far away, in terms of players needed, than we may think.

[Exiled_red]

You mention the idea of playing him behind a front two and that does seem to make sense in terms of our recruitment buying a load of central forwards and a couple of attacking full backs but none of that really fit in wanting to play 4-3-3 or variations of it, which was what we were trying to do at the start of the season. I really don't get what the plan was.

If you want to play with 2 proper strikers you need to have more than 2 CFs even if you include Wirtz we still only have 3, we are then left with Gakpo and Salah who have just signed new contracts who don't really have a role. If you make that a narrow front 3 and play a 3 man midfield relying on full backs to provide width you are asking them to do a hell of alot of work, but you also need a DM who can fill in when they inevitably get caught up field and we don't have that. Going 3-5-2 with the fullbacks playing as wingbacks means your relieve some of their defensive responsibility but again we don't have enough CBs to play 3 at the back.

The more I think about this the more frustrated I get about it I don't have problems with any of the players we signed Wirtz in particular is a fantastic footballer but I don't see what the plan was. Supposedly the reason Wirtz came was because of the plan that Slot (and maybe Hughes) sold him but I just don't see what it was or how it could have ever worked with the players we have if it was how we started the season...

[Charly]

Not being a prick but I said from the start that we should have been playing Klopp style with Firmino in the false 9 and Eke and Isak as inverted wingers.
In fact I thought that was the continuity plan

[SB]

Not being a prick but I said from the start that we should have been playing Klopp style with Firmino in the false 9 and Eke and Isak as inverted wingers.
In fact I thought that was the continuity plan

That’s not for you to say though is it

Seriously though that appeared to be the plan with recruitment yes.

[Mark79]

I don’t think Wirtz as false 9 with Isak and Ekitike as inverted wingers was ever the plan.

We signed two orthodox 9s because we want to play with a goalscoring 9, not a false 9.

We were never trying to recreate the famous Klopp front 3.

[Corndog]

I did think it was originally odd for LFC to be in for Wirtz because it seemed to me that the key to the press last year was szobo behind the centre forward.

Last season the shape and coordination of the press was rock solid.

There was stupid criticism of szobo for not having high enough output that didn’t properly acknowledge the role he was playing off the ball.

Thing is they couldn’t have known Isak was coming for sure and thus bought Ekitike when Newcastle moved for him. Did they then end up signing both at the expense of a versatile wide player to replace Diaz?


Wirtz is clearly a good player but I think he needs to be the go to man in the team like Salah was/is.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that he’s combined best with fellow new signings.

I’d like to see two pacey stronger wingers come in during the summer. There’s no doubt they’ve missed out on a quality player like that in Semenyo.

One thing Klopp gave Liverpool that needs to stay at the club is hard work ethic as a non negotiable and the team above any player. Even Salah and Mane were made to work and defend from the front. This season it doesn’t seem like the forwards are able to do so as effectively. Ekitike and Wirtz consistently put in shifts but can’t say the same for gakpo and Salah

[Exiled_red]

I did think it was originally odd for LFC to be in for Wirtz because it seemed to me that the key to the press last year was szobo behind the centre forward.

Last season the shape and coordination of the press was rock solid.

There was stupid criticism of szobo for not having high enough output that didn’t properly acknowledge the role he was playing off the ball.

Thing is they couldn’t have known Isak was coming for sure and thus bought Ekitike when Newcastle moved for him. Did they then end up signing both at the expense of a versatile wide player to replace Diaz?


Wirtz is clearly a good player but I think he needs to be the go to man in the team like Salah was/is.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that he’s combined best with fellow new signings.

I’d like to see two pacey stronger wingers come in during the summer. There’s no doubt they’ve missed out on a quality player like that in Semenyo.

One thing Klopp gave Liverpool that needs to stay at the club is hard work ethic as a non negotiable and the team above any player. Even Salah and Mane were made to work and defend from the front. This season it doesn’t seem like the forwards are able to do so as effectively. Ekitike and Wirtz consistently put in shifts but can’t say the same for gakpo and Salah

Perhaps there is an element of that we spent big on 3 players a wide player as well would have been likely a minimum of another £50m and we believed we were going to be spending £35m on Guehi.

On the other hand if we were going to a proper goalscoring forward if we'd only signed one of Isak or Ekitike who covers for them when they don't play you have to move to a completely different system, the back up options would be Danns or Wright who would be huge steps down in experience at the very least from either. I don't see only signing one 9 as a sensible approach. But not replacing Diaz was also stupid, and in saying Ekitike and Isak cover what we lost in Jota and Nunez I don't think we appreciated that those two could also play in the wide areas, Isak and Ekitike less so. IMO we bought 3 forward players when we probably needed 4 but all 3 play centrally, if we were going to limit ourselves and only buy 3 then one needed to be a wide player. I think this is our opportunistic recruitment approach, we saw the the opportunity to get 3 really good players and we took it without considering how to use them or how they work within the system. That's not a criticism of any of the players that we signed, I think they are all really good players, but I do find myself questioning the process.

[danperkins]

Think it has become more than just glimpses. What we need now is for the players he is finding again and again with the ball to start doing more with that extra second or two that is bought for them with quick passing.

The three players that seem to be on the same wavelength as him in terms of give and go on the ball are Ekitike, Frimpong (no surprise there as they linked up a crazy amount at Leverkusen) and Jones.

We need a few more to get to that level of expecting the ball from Wirtz and then doing something quickly when they receive it in space in the final third instead of getting it, taking a touch or two and going sideways.


Does have me thinking we are really unlucky that Isak has been so injury hit as a front three of


-------------Iask---------
----Ekitike-------Wirtz----



With a solid midfield trio behind them could cause chaos.


Let Wirtz and Ekitike just criss cross behind Isak and use Isak as an outlet, let one, sometimes two from the CM trio act as runners/facilitators from deeper and let Frimpong be the pace outlet on the right.

Not sure if Salah could come in and play in that Isak position between now and the end of the season as it would still require mobility and pressing.

Maybe Chiesa could share the role with him until the summer.


Then add proper reinforcements into the set up (new CB (or two), new mobile physical ball carrying but also ball playing CM and a new attacking player that can cause problems with pace along with dribbling and crossing.


Think for maybe 65 minutes of so at the weekend you could see clearly where we are clicking and also where we need that new piece or two to be in order to get the best out of what was clicking.

Drop say someone like Diomende into Saturday's team instead of Gakpo and maybe someone like Rovella or Elliot Anderson as a CM option, and just those two changes alone add serious pace, directness, physicality and ball playing ability. Suddenly other teams have an awful lot more to worry about with only two changes.


Does not change the fact we would still need the other reinforcements of course, CBs especially, but think the fixing/improving of our middle and final third issues are not as far away, in terms of players needed, than we may think.

No doubts are movement in general is poor and players just aren't working hard enough to get into positions to receive the ball, especially from the likes of Wirtz who seems a second ahead. We are lacking pace and desire on and off the ball and unfortunately it doesn't look like we are going to sign anybody this window which to me suggests, they don't want to invest anymore in this manager and are hoping Slot can get 4th spot and then adios. I do feel Slot is one foot out the door too and looking after his own CV. Maybe that's a bit harsh but it does feel that his playing is safe and secure with no long term plan, as he's not going to be there so that's not a concern of his. As I said previously, a league win and 4th spot in 2 years coming in after Klopp, that's a huge success for any manager. He may not be the one for us long term but it will go down as a successful tenure in the history books.

Whoever comes in, needs to be able to get the best out of Wirtz and Isak etc and pace and power around the likes of Wirtz, to let him do what he does best really does seem likes the way to go. Great to see him scoring and assisting though, can only do wonders for his confidence.

[Scratch]

I don't think a lack of signings in this window means we are not backing Slot. Over the past few windows, we have refused to sign a stop-gap when out first choice was not available. Seems to be the FSG way, make do with what you have until the right option is available.

When we failed to sign Virg, folks were panicking cos we didn't turn our attention to another player, but if we had done that, taking up wages, a spot on the team and part of the transfer pot, would we have actually signed Virg in the following window?

To that end, I imagine we have CB/RB targets in mind, but typically those players are not available in the winter window. Guehi was, but he priced himself out of a move to us, and will instead become a lost name at City, earning a pretty wage, but not playing every week.

[baitman]

It's all well and good waiting for our 1st choice targets, but when we are down to the 2nd choice tea lady as a bench option we really need to be a bit less fussy.
We are an injury away from having to draft in an unknown under 21 centre back, piss poor for the champions.

[danperkins]

I don't think a lack of signings in this window means we are not backing Slot. Over the past few windows, we have refused to sign a stop-gap when out first choice was not available. Seems to be the FSG way, make do with what you have until the right option is available.

When we failed to sign Virg, folks were panicking cos we didn't turn our attention to another player, but if we had done that, taking up wages, a spot on the team and part of the transfer pot, would we have actually signed Virg in the following window?

To that end, I imagine we have CB/RB targets in mind, but typically those players are not available in the winter window. Guehi was, but he priced himself out of a move to us, and will instead become a lost name at City, earning a pretty wage, but not playing every week.

fair post

It's very risky, I did think we'd at least with a Ben Davies or a Steven Caulker type stop gap signing as a just in case. Maybe Slot thinks he can play Gomez, Endo, Grav, Robbo at CB if things go tits up?