Florian Wirtz - Welcome to LFC

[Norbs]

2 goals and 2 assists for Wirtz including the winner tonight in a 4-3 away win against Switzerland.

https://twitter.com/lfctransferroom/...44916008874324

We should try and sign that lad

[kingfunk]

If only we could get the best from him………………………..*cough*

[BigChief]

I'm sure he'll be worth over 100m soon. Save this post.

[vlahka]

I love watching him when he's apparently ****. I can't wait to see him next season when he's ripping it up.

Not if Slot is still here he wont be.

[danperkins]

I'm happy to wait on Wirtz next season with more legs around him so he can do the intricate stuff, we know he has talent but I'm worried that it might not translate to the prem. He's so slow and weak and tends to hide in games. I'm not writing him off before people jump on this but ****ing hell he's been poor this season & it's been tough watching him in a LFC shirt. He really needs to be more than neat and tidy which is being kind.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I'm happy to wait on Wirtz next season with more legs around him so he can do the intricate stuff, we know he has talent but I'm worried that it might not translate to the prem. He's so slow and weak and tends to hide in games. I'm not writing him off before people jump on this but ****ing hell he's been poor this season & it's been tough watching him in a LFC shirt. He really needs to be more than neat and tidy which is being kind.

He has been a mixed bag this season, but he does not hide in games. Those are his pressure/defensive numbers for the season. He is working his arse off game after game.

Even his sprint and distance covered numbers are far better than Szoboszlai's this season.

He has not hit the heights we hoped for, this season anyway, but he is one of the few that has not lacked for effort all season and one of a few that tends to empty his tank on the pitch.


It also speaks volumes about Slot and the teammates around Wirtz that we have a £107m player having to be a workhorse/piano carrier.

If the likes of MacAllister and others in the team had the same sort of work ethic that is being shown by Wirtz, then we would be in a much better position this season.

Likewise if Slot had not persisted with so many badly out of form "star" players for so long during stretches of the season and put in "lesser" players that put in a shift, then the same point about how we would most likely be in a bit of a better spot than now applies.

New guys like Wirtz, Kerkez etc get a pass from me for this season. They have come into a ****storm of a season and into a dressing room mourning a friend, but they have at least given their all throughout the season, similar to how Szoboszlai has.

In a season like this, the guys that put in the work are way down the list of problems imo. Would include guys like Szoboszlai, Robertson and a handful of others as the non new players that, whilst not perfect form wise, always put in a shift for us this season.

For me the issues are firmly at the doors of the coach, his staff and the players who have been poor a lot or that have not put in the bare minimum of working hard each game.

Think if I had to make a list of names that can come out of this season exempt of any real criticism, or at the very least way back in the line that deserves it, then it would be



Alisson
Marma
Szoboszlai
Witrz
Kerkez
Ekitike
Rio
Bradley (because of injuries)
Isak (again because like Bradley injuries meant we have not seen enough to judge him on)



Every other player in the squad is fair game (though to differing degrees) for criticism regarding lack of work rate and heart. Every other player has had dips of form but, unlike the list I am not critical of, they also let their work rates drop when out of form or when things were going against the team on the pitch.

[kingfunk]

If only we had a manager to bring the best out of him.

[Charly]

Its all a bit pointless if the team isnt pressing high ro take full advantage

[Exiled_red]

We need to be setup to get the best out of him, that means a very strong solid midfield behind him, high pressing to win the ball back high up the pitch and players with good movement ahead of him. At the moment we have none of that

[Doc_Piptorious]

If only we had a manager to bring the best out of him.

If that means Alonso, then we need a hell of a lot of other players to be able to set up a team like he has done at Leverkusen and tried to at Real.


Though for the next month it matters not a jot from the perspective of a supporter. Just a case of hoping our results are as good as they can be for what is left in the season.

All I am hoping for now is that behind the scenes talks and work have been ongoing with regards to whatever changes, coaching wise and player wise, so that as much as possible can be in place prior to pre season (World cup nonsense notwithstanding)

[Doc_Piptorious]

We need to be setup to get the best out of him, that means a very strong solid midfield behind him, high pressing to win the ball back high up the pitch and players with good movement ahead of him. At the moment we have none of that

Would argue we need that regardless of Wirtz.

[Exiled_red]

Would argue we need that regardless of Wirtz.

We do, but Wirtz being in a midfield three IMO amplifies the need for it

[danperkins]

He has been a mixed bag this season, but he does not hide in games. Those are his pressure/defensive numbers for the season. He is working his arse off game after game.

Even his sprint and distance covered numbers are far better than Szoboszlai's this season.

He has not hit the heights we hoped for, this season anyway, but he is one of the few that has not lacked for effort all season and one of a few that tends to empty his tank on the pitch.


It also speaks volumes about Slot and the teammates around Wirtz that we have a £107m player having to be a workhorse/piano carrier.

If the likes of MacAllister and others in the team had the same sort of work ethic that is being shown by Wirtz, then we would be in a much better position this season.

Likewise if Slot had not persisted with so many badly out of form "star" players for so long during stretches of the season and put in "lesser" players that put in a shift, then the same point about how we would most likely be in a bit of a better spot than now applies.

New guys like Wirtz, Kerkez etc get a pass from me for this season. They have come into a ****storm of a season and into a dressing room mourning a friend, but they have at least given their all throughout the season, similar to how Szoboszlai has.

In a season like this, the guys that put in the work are way down the list of problems imo. Would include guys like Szoboszlai, Robertson and a handful of others as the non new players that, whilst not perfect form wise, always put in a shift for us this season.

For me the issues are firmly at the doors of the coach, his staff and the players who have been poor a lot or that have not put in the bare minimum of working hard each game.

Think if I had to make a list of names that can come out of this season exempt of any real criticism, or at the very least way back in the line that deserves it, then it would be



Alisson
Marma
Szoboszlai
Witrz
Kerkez
Ekitike
Rio
Bradley (because of injuries)
Isak (again because like Bradley injuries meant we have not seen enough to judge him on)



Every other player in the squad is fair game (though to differing degrees) for criticism regarding lack of work rate and heart. Every other player has had dips of form but, unlike the list I am not critical of, they also let their work rates drop when out of form or when things were going against the team on the pitch.

I don't disagree with alot of that but everyone is fair game when it comes to criticism, if it's warranted & Wirtz has been massively under whelming imo & to most other football fans from what I can gather & has to take some responsibility too. He's trying, it's the least any footballer can do, I didn't say he wasn't but clearly we didn't spend that much money on him to run around like a headless chicken and make an effort. I meant that we bought him to be a difference maker, a game changer & to stand and deliver in the biggest games, on the biggest stages & he has failed to do that & has been annoymous in many games. Yes I would much rather see him play under a different manager (Please god let this happen), in a coherent system, with different players around him to compliment his best attributes & we do have bigger problems but he has been a big part of an poor season, we can't deny that. We paid over 100m for him & he hasn't delivered the way anyone thought he would.. that's the truth. Whether or not he comes good remains to be seen, I really hope so otherwise it's going to go down as one of the most underwhelming transfers in the clubs history. He'll get time and rightly so, we know he has talent but whatever happens next season, he's need to show much much more.

Also, pressures, pressure regains, counterpressingcockpushups, to be honest I hate these types of stats. We watch him every week, he knows, we know, everyone knows using their eyes that it thus far, it has been a fairly unimpressive and anticlimactic season for him.... he's just been there. Frankly, I think he has gotten off lightly this season regards to criticism.

[Doc_Piptorious]

We do, but Wirtz being in a midfield three IMO amplifies the need for it

Possibly.

Though we could always go down the route, next season and under a different coach, of having a midfielder at RB (probably Szobo) so we can overload the midfield with him when we have the ball and bring in a quality physical CM/DM to pair with Gravenberch, say Fernandes from West Ham.

Then you have Gravenberch on the pitch, the high energy physical mobile defensive monster (who is also pretty good with the ball) in Fernandes and Szobo is still on the pitch too.

Slap a couple of wingers with pace on the flanks or one pacey quality winger like Diomande on the right and a LM/LAM/LCM hybrid player like Morgan Rogers on the left.

Let Isak and Ekitike compete for who is the starter and who is the cover at number 9.

Suddenly you have a team that has five high energy hard running players in Szobo, Kerkez, Wirtz, Fernandes and Rogers on the pitch at the same time. Fernades and Rogers both have a bit of needle to their physical play which would be a bonus.

Plus having those hard runners all over the pitch then allows the likes of Gravenberch etc that bit more time to do what he did so well the season before this one.

Also Szobo at RB would have a lot of fast mobile hard working players in front of him so he would be able to invert from the RB spot or push up with attacks.

Bradley and Frimpong are still there to play at RB for games we want to have Szobo IN CM and Frimpong can cover for Diomande too.

Rio gets minutes as the back up for both Diomande and Rogers and Gakpo if still here can be cover for across the front three and for cup games.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I don't disagree with alot of that but everyone is fair game when it comes to criticism, if it's warranted & Wirtz has been massively under whelming imo & to most other football fans from what I can gather & has to take some responsibility too. He's trying, it's the least any footballer can do, I didn't say he wasn't but clearly we didn't spend that much money on him to run around like a headless chicken and make an effort. I meant that we bought him to be a difference maker, a game changer & to stand and deliver in the biggest games, on the biggest stages & he has failed to do that & has been annoymous in many games. Yes I would much rather see him play under a different manager (Please god let this happen), in a coherent system, with different players around him to compliment his best attributes & we do have bigger problems but he has been a big part of an poor season, we can't deny that. We paid over 100m for him & he hasn't delivered the way anyone thought he would.. that's the truth. Whether or not he comes good remains to be seen, I really hope so otherwise it's going to go down as one of the most underwhelming transfers in the clubs history. He'll get time and rightly so, we know he has talent but whatever happens next season, he's need to show much much more.

Also, pressures, pressure regains, counterpressingcockpushups, to be honest I hate these types of stats. We watch him every week, he knows, we know, everyone knows using their eyes that it thus far, it has been a fairly unimpressive and anticlimactic season for him.... he's just been there. Frankly, I think he has gotten off lightly this season regards to criticism.

Think a case could be made that some are far more worthy of it than others, and I defo would have the guys making the most effort at the bottom of the list when it comes to criticism. You say you can see he is trying, well that puts him above the guys that look like they are not putting in the same effort for me.

I'm not saying Wirtz had a great season either as I did say he has been a mixed bag, but should be a lot of guys ahead of him on any list being made for criticism imo.


The most underwhelming signing stuff is worthless for the very reason you gave, he has not finished his career with us so no way of knowing how he will turn out. The money side of it has nowt to do with him, if the amount paid is a criticism then slam the money men for it.


And if money paid is a thing, then the guys in the team on much bigger pay packets than Wirtz should be under the microscope more than they are.

The pressure stats etc do matter too. We have been whinging in this forum all season about the lack of pressing and what not, well Wirtz is one of very few in our team who has actually been trying to do that all season.

This season Wirtz is a lot like Firmino under Brendan Rodgers. Doing loads of donkey work but not showing the flair that was seen whiulst with another team the season before. I suspect that, like Firmino, if pace and quality is put around Wirtz that we will suddenly see far more linking of play and the like on top of the hard work.

Bobby was being called a bum and a poor buy. Then Klopp came in, gave him a set position that suited his quality and work rate and started to surround him with guys that made runs and then added real quality on either side of him. Christ just think back to Bobby on the right wing and being expecting to try and link with a lumbering forward like Benteke instead of being more central and having movement around him so he could pull strings.

Wirtz needs the same imo, especially with regards to being given a set role/position (which does not mean he cannot roam ingame). Pointless having a guy that is excellent at linking play and having play progressed through him is you do not give him any play or movement to actually work with.