Lucas

[DannyMan2006]

Its a misconception to think there are 'lesser sides' as these lower ranked teams still score against us and often do well enough to make us look like the lesser side.
stoke, palace, bournemouth, Southampton, etc.
some of these teams might be more likely to sit back and be hard to play through but they will still look to hit us on the break once we over commit going forward.

our tactics are naive in the extreme as even playing lucas he was pushed so far foward he was useless to assist in holding in front of the cb's when west ham countered.
even the centre backs were on the half way line, and then ran BACKWARDS all the way to our goal area before deciding to make a challenge.

Even at home, even against teams that usually finish lower, we still need a dm (and more tactical awareness) to allow the rest of our midfield to push on.

It's not a misconception, there are lesser sides and as such with the odd exception, most teams place can be roughly guessed at the start of each season.

Had we treated West Ham like Arsenal away I'm pretty confident we'd have the basis of a solid nil nil. West Ham don't have the tools like Arsenal do to carve us up.

The difference is at home against West Ham we will force the play much more, have more possession and generally play much further up. If we misplace a simple pass it leaves our players out of position and with Can & Lucas in there a lack of dynamism to get back quickly to close down. Not to mention Lovren & Skrtel who lack pace themselves.

West Ham aren't particularly good, i think the one thing this season is quite a few of the average teams have some quality players who will hurt you if given space and freedom.

[baitman]

i would like to see a list of these "lesser teams"

[danperkins]

Yeah I was under the impression West Ham beat Arsenal comprehensively already too. I think we need to start showing these "lesser sides" a bit more respect. The premier league is not best league in the world in terms of football but it is certainly the most competitive league. With this TV money the so called lesser teams with smart recruitment and a bigger cashflow than they've ever had, and have been able to get players that they never would have been able to get before.

Games vs the likes of Southampton, Swansea, West Ham, Stoke etc especially away from home have become very difficult. There was absolutely nothing wrong with playing Lucas vs West Ham. Apart from him being not fit, we did not have one single player that actually performed well on the day & the manager royally ****ed up his tactics. I would like to think this was an anomaly but the Stoke mauling is still fresh in the memory. The league is more unpredictable than ever.

[Exiled_red]

I don't think it is a question or respect as to whether we play a DM or not. I think it is about picking a team that will take into account the way the opposition play and will give us the best chance of getting a result, that approach will have differences from side to side - you would play a different way against Man City to Chelsea, Man Utd to Everton, and Arsenal to West Ham etc.

Our approach against West Ham was very different from our approach against Arsenal despite it being the same side. While you could clearly see that we had thought about the Arsenal game in detail, the approach to West Ham seemed to be play the same side but push everyone a few yards further up the pitch and do whatever they want. There was IMO no way that the same level of tactical thought went into the preparation for both games. I find this particularly frustrating because in preparing for Arsenal we must have watched the way West Ham played against them, but it seems that in our preparation for the West Ham game it never seemed to occur to us that they might play in a similar way to how they did against Arsenal. I think I find this as if not more frustrating than the individual errors that led to West Ham's goals.

[baitman]

Yeah I was under the impression West Ham beat Arsenal comprehensively already too. I think we need to start showing these "lesser sides" a bit more respect.

Games vs the likes of Southampton, Swansea, West Ham, Stoke etc especially away from home have become very difficult.
The league is more unpredictable than ever.

its probably even harder to beat these teams when they play away as they dont push forward and often are tighter and more compact at the back. the onus is then on us to go at them and break them down, leaving us wide open for a swift counter attack.

brendan used to blab about death by football. if we have enough possession we are bound to win to majority of our games.
now he flip flops and says we need to be winning without the ball [or some similar soundbite]. this is very true, but when the opposition get 37% possession with only 18% in our half but still manage to beat us 3-0.

[The_weatherman]

i would like to see a list of these "lesser teams"

Watford

[Scratch]

Lucas...good against teams where we want to sit back and counter (eg Arsenal) but too slow against teams that will look hit us on the counter. Not a starter in every game for me.

[Norbs]

[Lecter]

Lovren...**** against teams where we want to sit back and counter (eg Arsenal) but complete bollocks against teams that will look hit us on the counter. Not a starter in any game for me.

[Muddled]

Can we keep the Lovren bashing in the Lovren thread, please? Ta.

[Exiled_red]

Can we keep the Lovren bashing in the Lovren thread, please? Ta.

There isn't a single thread big enough to hold it all

[Havors]

Lucas plays every game for me sat right in front of the back 4. Once he gets his match sharpness he is excellent and there isnt another player in the squad that can play that roll in my opinion.

90% of fans havent got a clue if a player is having a good game unless he scores a goal or does some worldy skills.

One thing Lucas cant do though is make Lovren any less **** He cant play two positions at once.

[Nicey]

Lucas plays every game for me sat right in front of the back 4. Once he gets his match sharpness he is excellent and there isnt another player in the squad that can play that roll in my opinion.

90% of fans havent got a clue if a player is having a good game unless he scores a goal or does some worldy skills.

One thing Lucas cant do though is make Lovren any less **** He cant play two positions at once.

Can also falls into this category I feel many times it looks like hes not having the best of games but his stats say otherwise

[Exiled_red]

Can also falls into this category I feel many times it looks like hes not having the best of games but his stats say otherwise

The stats can also be misleading though, there was a stat knocking around last season that said Lovren was the best defender in the league, which he clearly wasn't. Now I think that stats can be useful in evaluating some of the less eye catching performances in the side, but they can also be very misleading when taken out of context.

[Scratch]

Lucas plays every game for me sat right in front of the back 4. Once he gets his match sharpness he is excellent and there isnt another player in the squad that can play that roll in my opinion.

90% of fans havent got a clue if a player is having a good game unless he scores a goal or does some worldy skills.

One thing Lucas cant do though is make Lovren any less **** He cant play two positions at once.

Watching Lucas against West Ham, it was obvious he didn't have the pace to cope with their counter-attacking style. Watching him labouring in midfield to get back as younger, faster players went by him, it was plain to see that against a counter-attacking side his lack of pace was a big issue.

Ok, so he could sit back and just marshal the back four, but that leaves us light further upfield when trying to break down a stubborn back 8.

Hence my opinion is that for that sort of game, Lucas will not be a feature, and only featured this time due to injuries to others.