Fernando Torres

[Lee]

Of course it's to do with the fee. And I'm not knocking him, I'm critical of the fact that the replacement for Torres, a striker who is the clubs record buy by a mile, isn't performing and probably never will perform at the level that a player in such a role should. That is, primarily, a criticism of the decision to buy him, not a personal comment on the player.

I would indeed expect a lot less from a striker who cost 8m. Much lower fee, much smaller risk and we'd probably have bought better quality elsewhere with the difference.

I think it's the situation (as covered above) rather than the man that people are unhappy with.

Yup.

I may have missed it, but I've never seen anyone on here actually have a go at Carroll re his fee. Everyone knows that he can't help it and it's nothing to do with him.

I do expect a lot more from a £35m striker though. None of this 'play to his strength and cross the ball into the box' guff. I'd like someone who can also create his own chances for that sort of wedge.

[Craig_H]

Of course it's to do with the fee. And I'm not knocking him, I'm critical of the fact that the replacement for Torres, a striker who is the clubs record buy by a mile, isn't performing and probably never will perform at the level that a player in such a role should. That is, primarily, a criticism of the decision to buy him, not a personal comment on the player.

I would indeed expect a lot less from a striker who cost 8m. Much lower fee, much smaller risk and we'd probably have bought better quality elsewhere with the difference.

I think it's the situation (as covered above) rather than the man that people are unhappy with.

I wouldnt try to claim he's done as well as we need him to do, but as i've said, he's 22 years old and he's played an almighty 14 games for us.

Bit early to be forming a conclusive judgement, as some are doing. Or calling him '****', which is even nicer.

[Craig_H]

Yup.

I may have missed it, but I've never seen anyone on here actually have a go at Carroll re his fee. Everyone knows that he can't help it and it's nothing to do with him.

I do expect a lot more from a £35m striker though. None of this 'play to his strength and cross the ball into the box' guff. I'd like someone who can also create his own chances for that sort of wedge.

[Lee]

How is that having a go at Carroll the person re his fee?

[Craig_H]

Not 'having a go' but the issue that the criticism is basically based around, is the fee.

[Lee]

Not 'having a go' but the issue that the criticism is basically based around, is the fee.

Well, naturally. And the fact that for one reason or another he really hasn't been performing.

Mods - can you move the last few posts into the Carroll thread please?

[Fernandinho]

That GIF is amazing

[Bender]

[Bender]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT5xNOUzcJk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT5xNOUzcJk[/ame]

[RoadEnd]

We were forced into buying a replacement for Torres and having received £50m for him (how much is he currently worth?) - we essentially paid £15m less for a replacement. I think the £35m is an anomaly and relative to the money received for Torres.

[cream]

£85m. Must be the worst business deal ever. Still, rather have Torres.

[Tee]

Of course given the choice I think it is a no brainer that we would rather have kept Torres, but the fact is Andy Carroll is a Liverpool player and we have to show some faith and confidence in him.

Lets not write Carroll off already! Don't forget how hard it was even for our greatest ever goalscorer when he first joined:

From Wiki:

Rush was used sporadically during his first season at the club as Liverpool had a policy of bringing in young talent and playing them in the reserves to learn 'the Liverpool way'. Rush was treated no differently and had to begin his time at the club as a squad member rather than being thrown into the first team.

This learning period was hard and not at all 'Rush-like', as the goals didn't flow, almost leading to the eager youngster leaving Anfield in the search of regular first-team football. But after a talk with the very shrewd Paisley, who told him to "be more selfish in front of goal", Rush decided to stay and fight for a place.

Rush's first goal for the club took time to arrive, but it eventually came on 30 September 1981 during a European Cup first round second leg tie at Anfield against Oulun Palloseura. Liverpool had already won the first leg at the Raatti Stadium 1–0, and the second leg proved to be a formality as they trounced the Finnish team 7–0, Rush scoring in the 67th minute after coming on three minutes earlier for David Johnson.

His first two league goals came on 10 October 1981 in a 3-0 home win over Leeds United, and a month later he scored in the Merseyside derby at Anfield in a 3-1 win. After Christmas however, Rush went into overdrive as Liverpool began a dramatic rise from mid table to the top of the table. He scored a hat-trick in the 4-0 away league win over Notts County on 26 January 1982, and was on the scoresheet in both of the next two games. He managed a total of eight goals in the League Cup (one of them in the final win over Tottenham Hotspur) and three of them in the FA Cup campaign which ended in a fifth round defeat by Chelsea.[4]

He ended the season as the club's top scorer, netting 30 times in just 49 appearances in all competitions, a ratio of 1 goal every 1.6 games. 17 of these goals came in the League as he helped the Reds reclaim the League championship from holders Aston Villa. The title triumph was all the more impressive by the fact that Liverpool had entered 1982 in 10th place, with the likes of Manchester United and minnows Swansea City leading the pack then, before a turnaround in Liverpool's fortunes saw the league championship trophy return to Anfield after two years away. He also scored a goal to help Liverpool win the 1982 Football League Cup Final against Tottenham Hotspur.

[RoadEnd]

£85m. Must be the worst business deal ever. Still, rather have Torres.

Probably was, but both clubs were desperate for different reasons.
In hindsight, I'd rather have kept the £50m and made a more considered purchase during the summer.

However, Carroll is here and he gets my full backing.

Torres isn't and he can go f$%k himself.

[lickedlollipop]

That GIF is amazing

indeed, good edit

[Vermilion]

Of course it's to do with the fee. And I'm not knocking him, I'm critical of the fact that the replacement for Torres, a striker who is the clubs record buy by a mile, isn't performing and probably never will perform at the level that a player in such a role should. That is, primarily, a criticism of the decision to buy him, not a personal comment on the player.

I would indeed expect a lot less from a striker who cost 8m. Much lower fee, much smaller risk and we'd probably have bought better quality elsewhere with the difference.

I think it's the situation (as covered above) rather than the man that people are unhappy with.

Exactly. The fee IS everything, with a player...you have a fee...and you have his form, the two things he'll be judged by.

The fee is meant to be relative to how good a player is, or will be, then, his form tells us whether the fee was too high or too low, surely, that is all.

The only thing to argue over is how long a player gets before we say he was overpriced or a bargain or just fair dincum.

edit: haha, fair dincum, i'm not even an Aussie.