Jordan Henderson

[Red_Polo]

You see him starting ahead of Shelvey, Allen, Lucas, Suso and Sahin if we buy him ??

Read my posts.

Not now, not as first choice, no. I said he could develop into a regular.

[Imy]

thats just it mate. he played a handful of games in midfield towards the end of the season and he was really good. he was absolutely dog **** when kenny played him right hand side of midfield but not when he played centrally.

the thing about henderson is that he's very good at a lot of things like technically he's very good, he's very fit and he sees the passes very well. he's tactically astute and if you look at mostars compilation he plays an over the shoulder pass to downing about twenty seconds in which isnt an easy skill to accomplish but it shows his range of passing too. he will play to instructions and he;s disciplined. thats really all you can ask for in a central midfield type player.

the old school way of thinking was the midfielders had to get stuck in and all this box to box bollocks. thats all gone but they still need to be able to compete and then use the ball well which he does.

Can't say i agree with him playing really well in central midfield last season, he was average to poor imo.

I do agree he is skilful and has bundles of energy, he can also pick short passes but for me thats it.
He has poor shooting, long passing, tackling and the main problem is like Downing he has zero personality - this is the primary reason i can't see him succeeding - I don't think he's got the mentality to play for a big club.

[destinydude]

Jesus wept, Imy. What a load of cliche ridden bull that is.

[el matador]

In absence of Lucas, aside from shifting Allen back, nobody is particularly suited to step in. Neither Hendo nor Shelvey are defensively minded ball winners. Henderson has played that role well on one occasion against weak opposition, but what made his performance impressive is what he did with the ball more than without it. It's enough to suggest we should be trying him in that role again - but to say he should be a guaranteed starter for us is jumping the gun IMO.

i agree that the opposition was weak but sahin didnt exactly cover himself in glory either. He didnt show that he was the standout player amongst that crowd. But you can bet that rodgers will play him before henderson even thought henderson had the much better game.

in lucas' absence he should be the no.1 defensive mid with allen further forward and gerrard off suarez. hendo and allen in the middle of the pitch adds much more strength and solidity.

[Imy]

Jesus wept, Imy. What a load of cliche ridden bull that is.

Seriously, Rafa always talked about important mentality is, and i can't say i've been too impressed with Hederson's. You can't hide when playing in central midfield and way too many times that is what Henderson has done, games go buy with him hardly influencing the game (the Young Boys game being an exception).
The fact Rodgers was prepared to exchange him for Demspey tells me a lot about how much the manager rates him.

[el matador]

Can't say i agree with him playing really well in central midfield last season, he was average to poor imo.

I do agree he is skilful and has bundles of energy, he can also pick short passes but for me thats it.
He has poor shooting, long passing, tackling and the main problem is like Downing he has zero personality - this is the primary reason i can't see him succeeding - I don't think he's got the mentality to play for a big club.

before we write him off we have to see how he performs in the middle of the park with a run of ten games. downing has provided enough evidence that he is below standard because he hasnt done on the left, right or at left back.

henderson hasnt had enough chances to play in his preferred CM role.

[el matador]

Seriously, Rafa always talked about important mentality is, and i can't say i've been too impressed with Hederson's. You can't hide when playing in central midfield and way too many times that is what Henderson has done, games go buy with him hardly influencing the game (the Young Boys game being an exception).
The fact Rodgers was prepared to exchange him for Demspey tells me a lot about how much the manager rates him.

rodgers tried to **** with the owners and they called his bluff over dempsey. he let carroll go thinking he would have fsg over a barrel but they didnt buy it. that he was willing to sacrifice henderson just makes the situation much worse.

[destinydude]

Seriously, Rafa always talked about important mentality is, and i can't say i've been too impressed with Hederson's. You can't hide when playing in central midfield and way too many times that is what Henderson has done, games go buy with him hardly influencing the game (the Young Boys game being an exception).

The fact Rodgers was prepared to exchange him for Demspey tells me a lot about how much the manager rates him.

FYI, Rodgers also offered Downing and Enrique first and then when he had no chance he took a shot with Henderson.

As for him having 'no mentality', I'd like to know wht mentality Lucas had in his first 3 years here. The same Rafa that persisted and believed in him.

There's nothing wrong with Henderson's mentality. If anything, there's a lot wrong with yours

[Imy]

FYI, Rodgers also offered Downing and Enrique first and then when he had no chance he took a shot with Henderson.

As for him having 'no mentality', I'd like to know wht mentality Lucas had in his first 3 years here. The same Rafa that persisted and believed in him.

There's nothing wrong with Henderson's mentality. If anything, there's a lot wrong with yours

Lucas was Brazilian player of the year thus showing his pedigree. He was battling arguably the best Liverpool central midfield ever assembled in Gerrard, Alonso and Mascherano, he was coming from Brazil with no English settling in a new country.

Where is the comparable with Henderson? In 4 games Allen has shown more than Henderson did in whole season (and i wasn't convinced about sallen either)

It's easy to criticise another poster, whats your point? how why do YOU think he's worth giving a chance?

[Imy]

FYI, Rodgers also offered Downing and Enrique first and then when he had no chance he took a shot with Henderson.

Why didn't he offer Shelvey? or Kelly?

I'll tell you why because he saw something in them, he wanted them to stay.
If he though Henderson was so important he would not have offered him and offered others instead.

[destinydude]

Lucas was Brazilian player of the year thus showing his pedigree. He was battling arguably the best Liverpool central midfield ever assembled in Gerrard, Alonso and Mascherano, he was coming from Brazil with no English settling in a new country.

Where is the comparable with Henderson? In 4 games Allen has shown more than Henderson did in whole season (and i wasn't convinced about sallen either)

It's easy to criticise another poster, whats your point? how why do YOU think he's worth giving a chance?

All that has nothing to do with him not having a 'mentality' or whatever it is that you phrased. Bottomline is he was awful, much more awful than what you are making Henderson to be. It's a good thing the manager saw enough in him unlike you did with Lucas.

Allen's done better because Allen's suited to the CM/CDM role. Henderson is more suited to the CM/box to box role. Why would it matter if Allen's done more in 4 games in his preferred position in a tactical set up he's familiar with for the last 3 yrs working under the same boss?

Henderson has shown enough in his stay here that he has all the abilities to make it as a player for us. Be it a squad player or a starter when someone's injured. Just because he isn't your type of player, pleas don't rub it on us saying he's gash when he clearly isn't.

[destinydude]

Why didn't he offer Shelvey? or Kelly?

I'll tell you why because he saw something in them, he wanted them to stay.
If he though Henderson was so important he would not have offered him and offered others instead.

I'll tell you why. Neither of them ill fetch you 7m which was the figure that was quoted for Dempsey.

[destinydude]

Add to that, he has 6 midfielders (Gerrard (can't sell), Sahin (on loan), Lucas(preferred choice), Shelvey(can't get 7m), Allen(just in) and Henderson(more than 7m/only saleable asset)

He could have done with 5 midfielders and sold one of them in exchange for a striker which we desperately needed.

After both Downing and Enrique didn't interest Fulham and when push came to shove, he had to make a choice on Henderson and I'm ****ing glad that Henderson rejectedit straight away.

[Imy]

All that has nothing to do with him not having a 'mentality' or whatever it is that you phrased. Bottomline is he was awful, much more awful than what you are making Henderson to be. It's a good thing the manager saw enough in him unlike you did with Lucas.

Allen's done better because Allen's suited to the CM/CDM role. Henderson is more suited to the CM/box to box role. Why would it matter if Allen's done more in 4 games in his preferred position in a tactical set up he's familiar with for the last 3 yrs working under the same boss?

Henderson has shown enough in his stay here that he has all the abilities to make it as a player for us. Be it a squad player or a starter when someone's injured. Just because he isn't your type of player, pleas don't rub it on us saying he's gash when he clearly isn't.

Where did i criticise Lucas when we signed him? the pedigree i was talking about showed his 'winning' mentality.

Name me one game last season when Henderson was given his favoured position he played outstandingly well?

So you agree he shouldn't be a starter?

[Red_Polo]

i agree that the opposition was weak but sahin didnt exactly cover himself in glory either. He didnt show that he was the standout player amongst that crowd. But you can bet that rodgers will play him before henderson even thought henderson had the much better game.

in lucas' absence he should be the no.1 defensive mid with allen further forward and gerrard off suarez. hendo and allen in the middle of the pitch adds much more strength and solidity.

It's true Sahin hasn't done an awful lot yet. So early on for him though, think he'll take a while to adjust. Perhaps more than any of our CMs, he would benefit from Lucas being back - his assets seem more heavily balanced toward the creative side than our others. I think he will be eased in.

I don't think as things stand there's much to separate playing Henderson and Allen as the two capable of playing deeper vs having either Shelvey or Gerrard with Allen. However, as I say I do think he could develop well in that role, so if we envisaged him playing there long term it would make the decision an easier one. Essentially, we differ not in principle but in degrees if you catch my drift