Roberto Firmino

[danperkins]

Another player being played in a position that doesn't suit his attributes. Looked lost out there. Play him central or just sell him as we won't get anything out of him.

[Keyser Soze]

He also isn't a wide player, if we want a player to play out wide we should buy one, instead we continually by No 10's and try to convert them to wide players, which seems to be what we are doing with him.

I think it's too much to ask someone to play in a new team, new league and new position and expect him to do well, I felt the same thing last year with Can and Markovic (and others).

I've said this before but with the likes of Hyypia, Suarez, Torres, Alonso even Kuyt to an extent from the moment they signed they looked the part.

Yes they need some time to acclimatise but how long do you wait?

Markovic for all his reputation was the same as Firmino, I don't think he showed much at all especially with the price tag he came with.

[Exiled_red]

I've said this before but with the likes of Hyypia, Suarez, Torres, Alonso even Kuyt to an extent from the moment they signed they looked the part.

Yes they need some time to acclimatise but how long do you wait?

Markovic for all his reputation was the same as Firmino, I don't think he showed much at all especially with the price tag he came with.

The likes of Hyypia, Suarez, Torres etc were all played in there best positions, (IIRC Alonso took a few months to get used to the game, I seem to recall he wanted too much time on the ball at the start) I don't know how good or bad Firmino or Markovic are but if we play them out of position IMO you make things much more difficult for them. The other issue is that it's not just the players who are new to the league or even the side that are looking poor, if you have a working system it's easier to slot players into and have them do well if you don't know what system you're playing they are going to struggle.

[spud_gun]

You're spot on, but to bemoan a new signing before he's kicked a ball is the sign of a bellend really

Yeah, yeah tell that to the baying masses on here who were ****ed off with the signings of Koncheskey and Poulsen

[cream]

This is what's particularly concerning - spending big money on a player and not knowing how to play him. It's embarrassing.

Rodgers tends to do that with player that are not 'his signings'. His way of getting his 'own way'.

[Keyser Soze]

The likes of Hyypia, Suarez, Torres etc were all played in there best positions, (IIRC Alonso took a few months to get used to the game, I seem to recall he wanted too much time on the ball at the start) I don't know how good or bad Firmino or Markovic are but if we play them out of position IMO you make things much more difficult for them. The other issue is that it's not just the players who are new to the league or even the side that are looking poor, if you have a working system it's easier to slot players into and have them do well if you don't know what system you're playing they are going to struggle.

Agreed i don't think theres a system on the pitch and that means theres no strategy on transfers either. It goes back on the manager for not helping himself

[cream]

Also with Sturridge coming back, Firmino gonna find himself warming the bench most of the time.

[MrMichael]

Rodgers tends to do that with player that are not 'his signings'. His way of getting his 'own way'.

That's ridiculous.

Is that why we're not playing to Benteke's strengths? Or Milner's arguably? Or Ings' yesterday? Tactical ineptitude or whatever I'll buy, but the idea that he'd deliberately sabotage himself with his job increasingly at stake is just silly. He could quite easily not have played Firmino much at all yet if he'd wanted without occasioning much comment due to lack of preseason etc.

[Exiled_red]

Agreed i don't think theres a system on the pitch and that means theres no strategy on transfers either. It goes back on the manager for not helping himself

That was the worry many of us had over the summer and at the moment it is looking justified.

[MrMichael]

The likes of Hyypia, Suarez, Torres etc were all played in there best positions, (IIRC Alonso took a few months to get used to the game, I seem to recall he wanted too much time on the ball at the start) I don't know how good or bad Firmino or Markovic are but if we play them out of position IMO you make things much more difficult for them. The other issue is that it's not just the players who are new to the league or even the side that are looking poor, if you have a working system it's easier to slot players into and have them do well if you don't know what system you're playing they are going to struggle.

This is all true, but there also has to be an element of it being down to the player. During Rodger's tenure there have been plenty of players who have earned a spot, whether just in the team, their best position, or even so as to have the system designed around them to a degree. If Markovic was killing it every day in training, and impressing how a Sterling or Ibe did in their first few games (in whatever positions) then I have no doubt he'd be in the team right now.

Its a catch 22 and yes management does play a big part but Firmino's position yesterday isn't what made him lack incisive touch when he did get the ball. He had a poor game and looks like he's going to need some time to get up to the pace of this league to me. You're totally right though about a functioning system, bring a Firmino into the 433 from 2013 and he'd have a much better chance of impressing than into the disfunctional version we have now, wherever he played on the pitch.

[Exiled_red]

This is all true, but there also has to be an element of it being down to the player. During Rodger's tenure there have been plenty of players who have earned a spot, whether just in the team, their best position, or even so as to have the system designed around them to a degree. If Markovic was killing it every day in training, and impressing how a Sterling or Ibe did in their first few games (in whatever positions) then I have no doubt he'd be in the team right now.

Its a catch 22 and yes management does play a big part but Firmino's position yesterday isn't what made him lack incisive touch when he did get the ball. He had a poor game and looks like he's going to need some time to get up to the pace of this league to me.

That's true also but I suppose it depends how the training system works as well, if the player comes in and Rodgers decides this guy is a decent footballer who is used to playing a No 10 role, but I want him to play wide right, in order to do this he needs to work on his crossing, he needs to track back and help his full back out etc, it could become quite easy for the player to become disheartened even if he is working his socks off trying to develop his game to play that position, it just might not suit him, and if he can't do the new stuff well enough and isn't able to practice/show his old stuff off he's kind of in limbo

I'm not saying this is what is happening, but IMO there is some kind of problem somewhere, with the number and type of signings we have made recently either we aren't scouting these players properly or we aren't working well enough with them when they are here.

[MrMichael]

I'm not saying this is what is happening, but IMO there is some kind of problem somewhere, with the number and type of signings we have made recently either we aren't scouting these players properly or we aren't working well enough with them when they are here.

Oh absolutely, I do agree there must be an element of something wrong - who was the last player we signed who had an almost immediate & relatively sustained impact? Coutinho/Sturridge? I just think it is difficult to judge some of these in isolation however, particularly Markovic (whose fee was always ridiculous for his status) and now Firmino after a few games.

I'm most concerned about the consistent lack of a plan. Our signings this summer were not bad at all, but what exactly were we planning on doing with them? How were Firmino and Coutinho supposed to play together? With Benteke & all the other central strikers we have?

I've always liked Rodgers but if he can't get this together very quickly. How a team with the attacking resources at its disposal can't look like scoring a simple goal to save its life, or even particularly having a plan how to do so, is close to inexcusable now however much excuse there is for bedding in. It isn't like all our business this summer was last minute, what on earth was going on in pre-season?

[Exiled_red]

Oh absolutely, I do agree there must be an element of something wrong - who was the last player we signed who had an almost immediate & relatively sustained impact? Coutinho/Sturridge? I just think it is difficult to judge some of these in isolation however, particularly Markovic (whose fee was always ridiculous for his status) and now Firmino after a few games.

I'm most concerned about the consistent lack of a plan. Our signings this summer were not bad at all, but what exactly were we planning on doing with them? How were Firmino and Coutinho supposed to play together? With Benteke & all the other central strikers we have?

I've always liked Rodgers but if he can't get this together very quickly. How a team with the attacking resources at its disposal can't look like scoring a simple goal to save its life, or even particularly having a plan how to do so, is close to inexcusable now however much excuse there is for bedding in. It isn't like all our business this summer was last minute, what on earth was going on in pre-season?

I think that this was the main concern most of us had on here over the summer, alot of it (perhaps wrongly) focused on Benteke, but I think that it largely applies across the board to our signings in the summer. I think in fairness most of them are decent players the problem is how/whether they fit together to form a team.

I have mentioned alot that I am not convinced the money spent on Firmino was spent in the best way - I don't mean to have a go at Firmino but just looking at the squad we seem to have a number of players who could play a similar role, but no one who can play in wide areas in my mind a wide forward could have been more use to us, (as I say I don't mean it as a slight on Firmino I hope he can go on and be a great player for us) but I wonder what the plan was when we signed him. He doesn't seem to fit in that well with Benteke, it just seems an odd signing with little thought as to how the team goes together. You can contrast that with the Dalglish signings of Carroll and Downing both shocking signings so a terrible comparison in terms of quality but my point is you could at least see the thought process behind them in terms of building a team. I don't see any systematic thinking behind this summers signings which I find worrying. Even more so when I look at the squad and see areas that are completely lacking while other areas have players that are too similar.

[el matador]

the purchase of firmino raises yet more questions about our convoluted transfer business. If Rodgers wants to play 433 why are we signing yet another player who does his best work inside. surely someone who can go out wide and put some balls in for benteke would have been a better choice.

we have so many player who want to play 'inside' and yet very few who want to stay wide.

[danperkins]

Yeah we are crying out for wide players, way too narrow and easy to defend against. Service to Benteke has been shocking.