Roberto Firmino

[labourRed]

Surely we aren't as simple as to only address one issue at a time. Our attack wasn't our biggest issue last year either but we still bought Salah. In the last two games we had periods where we were way on top and created good breaks. Score one of the ones we missed against Watford and it's 2 more points, irrespective of our defensive **** ups.

I think we are in that position. Recruitment is not going well. So we need to work out how to be more solid first before looking at improvements elsewhere. Sort the weaknesses first, innit.

[danperkins]

I see where Ken is coming from though, if we had a clinical striker last night, regardless of the mistake for their goal... that game could have been dead a buried. I have actually been having this exact conversation with mates outside of this forum and I think we have enough players breaking their bollox around the pitch to allow our striker to stay higher up and looks for goals.

There is no doubts Firmino is a real talent, he gets good numbers but for "our striker" we need better IMO. I just think the way he plays, if he has guy infront of him he would be still getting the numbers he is getting now plus haivng a goal threat ahead of him to pick passes too. We would get his work rate deeper in the midfield too which would be great.

You cannot argue with his stats but IMO he would be better behind the striker. Definitely not our main issue but sure you can always improve on your scoring.

[labourRed]

I agree but to improve upon Firmino there with a clinical striker you're spending upwards of £60m. I simply don't think we will can fill all the holes in the squad unless we buy cheap which it doesn't seem like is the strategy at the moment.

[fidget]

We don't play with a false 9 or a striker or whatever you want to call it.
We play with a fluid and dynamic front 3 who all weigh in.
Firmino starts so many of our attacks through either winning the ball in their half or receiving it and moving it quickly and efficiently.
Playing with two absolute speed merchants like Salah and Mane he is a great fulcrum.
The better the players we have on the pitch the better he looks.
Our attack really isn't the issue.
No idea what game some people watch.

[labourRed]

Also in addition to Firmino we have Origi, Sturridge, Ings and Solanke. 5players for one role and Sturridge is on a healthy wedge.

In order to get a striker we'll have to sell at least Sturridge first which given his injury record must be nigh on impossible. So I've long given up on a new striker for at least this year.

[Pablo]

He didn't have the best game yesterday really, but he still created a few clear cut chances.

When he plays things happen.

It's the start of the season and you can see some players are still playing themselves into top form. He's one of them.

[Kenneth]

We don't play with a false 9 or a striker or whatever you want to call it.
We play with a fluid and dynamic front 3 who all weigh in.
Firmino starts so many of our attacks through either winning the ball in their half or receiving it and moving it quickly and efficiently.
Playing with two absolute speed merchants like Salah and Mane he is a great fulcrum.
The better the players we have on the pitch the better he looks.
Our attack really isn't the issue.
No idea what game some people watch.

It's not enough. If you're playing in a front three you have to be more of a goal threat. The destroyer and provider should really be behind the front three, not part of it, take Kante at Chelsea. Costa, William and hazard in front in terms title winning side. He's really not helped by a lack of creativity behind him with Coutinho out, but even when Phil is playing and he can be more direct that just shows up Firminho's lack of goal threat, his shooting is generally ****e and he fluffs far too many chances. Being a runner and generally tidy with the ball does not a good enough striker make. Out wide, ok, but not leading the line because he isn't good enough to do it.

[RedReet]

Mad. Again, I think you're confusing the importance of a player in his position with him personally. I think the attributes of a good 'false 9' have been reasonably well spelt out; good in the air, work rate, goal threat, distribution. Whereas you could retry much tick every box for Gerrard, so far work rate seems to be the only one that Firminho really excels at. Maybe distribution when he's really in form, which was about 18 months ago.

Defensively that's what he excels at, but offensively his movement and flexibility are key. People are criticising him for dropping deep and moving wide, but that's pulling defenders out of position and leaving space for Mane and Salah. During a game he will also swap positions with Mane and Salah and move out wide which a traditional CF wouldn't be as effective at. Plus his finishing isn't as bad as people make out. You keep hearing people say a proper CF would have scored that, but that's a load of ****. The best strikers miss plenty of opportunities too, look at Kane at the weekend. At least if Firmino isn't finishing chances, he still brings plenty to the game.

I think he's class.

[danperkins]

I agree but to improve upon Firmino there with a clinical striker you're spending upwards of £60m. I simply don't think we will can fill all the holes in the squad unless we buy cheap which it doesn't seem like is the strategy at the moment.

Yeah that's true mate. I said a few months ago I thought we needed a striker and I was convinced would go for one but yeah no chance of that happening at this stage. Firmino is a quality player though no doubts.

As far as i'm concerned you can never have too many goals in your team. To be honest, it's not even looking likely we will get a CB or CM at this rate. This window has really not gone the way I expected to go

[Kenneth]

He didn't have the best game yesterday really, but he still created a few clear cut chances.

When he plays things happen.

It's the start of the season and you can see some players are still playing themselves into top form. He's one of them.

Did you just say "When he plays things happen."?

[Doc_Piptorious]

Firmino is not a problem, far from it in fact, but would love to see us play a good finisher in the same team as him, Mane, Salah.


Say someone like Belotti who is a high work rate player like Firmino but who is more clinical and more physical. Let Firmino take up a second striker or an AM role like he used to do when at Hoffenhein and drop one of our current CM trio.

That way Firmino is taking the spot that a fit Lallana or a fit Coutinho would take, and we have a very mobile front three in there ahead of him, and it would be a three that he could interchange with as he played out wide as well when he played in the Bundesliga.


Course that would still have me wanting to bring in more quality in CM, but would give us even more by way of attacking threat.

[danperkins]

Firmino is not a problem, far from it in fact, but would love to see us play a good finisher in the same team as him, Mane, Salah.


Say someone like Belotti who is a high work rate player like Firmino but who is more clinical and more physical. Let Firmino take up a second striker or an AM role like he used to do when at Hoffenhein and drop one of our current CM trio.

That way Firmino is taking the spot that a fit Lallana or a fit Coutinho would take, and we have a very mobile front three in there ahead of him, and it would be a three that he could interchange with as he played out wide as well when he played in the Bundesliga.


Course that would still have me wanting to bring in more quality in CM, but would give us even more by way of attacking threat.

completely agree with this.

Belotti looks lethal and works his bollox off. Aren't Chelsea after him too? Not a popular shout on here but I'd love if he went for Diego Costa to be honest, not that they would sell to us though.

[Exiled_red]

We don't play with a false 9 or a striker or whatever you want to call it.
We play with a fluid and dynamic front 3 who all weigh in.
Firmino starts so many of our attacks through either winning the ball in their half or receiving it and moving it quickly and efficiently.
Playing with two absolute speed merchants like Salah and Mane he is a great fulcrum.
The better the players we have on the pitch the better he looks.
Our attack really isn't the issue.
No idea what game some people watch.

This isn't just aimed at you but I think that people have a tendency to over estimate the influence of the front 3.

If you look at the front 3 as the main goalscorers in the PL last year they contributed 37 goals between them (Coutinho 13, Mane 13, Firmino 11). Which is decent but not outstanding, IMO the main striker needs to be getting about 20 goals a season, Firmino was only half way to that last season and that would put that total close to 50 which I think is what we should be looking for. Yes we had injuries last year but Firmino was the one of the 3 who played the most and he had the lowest goal return.

For comparison Spurs top 3 scorers got 61 between them, Chelsea's 45, Arsenal 46 all these sides play with a more out and out striker.

I should say as Kenneth says there is a difference between no liking or rating a player and thinking that he shouldn't be playing in a certain position. I like Firmino but I don't think this position suits him and I think that someone who could contribute more goals could be beneficial. Hopefully he proves me wrong and can get 20 PL goals this year with Mane, Salah and Coutinho getting into the teens of goals.

[fidget]

Spurs and Chelsea finished first and second and score only 7 and 8 goals more than us respectively. Arsenal scored 1 less goal.
It's the other end where we have the problem.
I'd love us to go out and buy a £70m striker and try Firmino as an AM but it's not going to happen.

[Gibbo]

In 2 competitive games he has a goal and an assist.

Played a sublime pass to Milner too in the lead up to the second goal last night.

He's the problem though, and not our ****house defence, or Mignolet letting near post goals in by punching them into the net.

We need another striker I agree. But Firmino will not be the escaped goat(rip chazza) this season.