Roberto Firmino

[Vermilion]

Yup.

It's completely the wrong way round.

It's like the CPS deciding guilt without bothering with a court of law.

Is it deciding guilt though, or is it the probability of getting a positive verdict based on available evidence ?

They only charge if they know the evidence will convict, or has a very high chance of doing so, maybe ?

[Big-Red-Ed]

If Bobby is exonerated and Holgate found to be lying it will be interesting to see if he gets punished because that is a low snidey move.

Sent from my P01M using Tapatalk

[dww]

What if he genuinely thought that was what Firmino had said?

More generally, I think after the Suarez thing (and wider social issues in the news recently) it should be clear that disbelieving potential victims due to your initial biases is a terrible way to proceed.

Whatever happens there needs to be an investigation into how the referee handled this. Given his location he is the closest there is to a good, unbiased witness. If he heard that he had to have acted there and then.

[Snigger]

No it's not that moment at all. Look when he runs to holgate, he shouts something, ref and players hold him back, then our view is obscured by the ref and at that moment he says something that incenses holgate. Look at holgates reaction at that point. He may of misheard, thought something else was said or be plain lying.

Maybe. - but if he said something then it would explain the push

[Doc_Piptorious]

Maybe. - but if he said something then it would explain the push

Thought Holgate's claim is that whatever was said was after the push, and just as Firmino ran towards him and the ref. At least that how it seems to be getting reported

[Snigger]

Thought Holgate's claim is that whatever was said was after the push, and just as Firmino ran towards him and the ref. At least that how it seems to be getting reported

If that's true there's no mitigation for the push and the **** should get a ban.

[Kenneth]

What if he genuinely thought that was what Firmino had said?

More generally, I think after the Suarez thing (and wider social issues in the news recently) it should be clear that disbelieving potential victims due to your initial biases is a terrible way to proceed.

Whatever happens there needs to be an investigation into how the referee handled this. Given his location he is the closest there is to a good, unbiased witness. If he heard that he had to have acted there and then.

It's a possibility. I don't believe it though. I reckon he heard something he thought was close enough that he could try it on unfortunately. He was looking for a way out of the situation and he latched onto that as his best hope.

[Doc_Piptorious]

If that's true there's no mitigation for the push and the **** should get a ban.

The push should be taken as a seperate thing altogether imo. It was a reckless act that could have seen player or supporters injured, and it was also reckless as it is the kind of thing that could have incited a very bad reaction from the crowd.


To my eyes it is a straight red.


And if it is true that the claim about Firmino is for when the ref was standing between the players, then there is no reason at all when a retro active ban canot be given for the push. Again imo of course.

[marksared]

Its obvious Holgates a complete utter air head

[dom9]

What if he genuinely thought that was what Firmino had said?

More generally, I think after the Suarez thing (and wider social issues in the news recently) it should be clear that disbelieving potential victims due to your initial biases is a terrible way to proceed.

Whatever happens there needs to be an investigation into how the referee handled this. Given his location he is the closest there is to a good, unbiased witness. If he heard that he had to have acted there and then.

Some questions about the morality of supporting / hanging out to dry footballers depending on how crucial they are to the team was recently discussed in the Flanagan thread.

We really need to find out what happened before anything else.

Trouble is, I don't trust the FA to do that.

[Exiled_red]

What if he genuinely thought that was what Firmino had said?

More generally, I think after the Suarez thing (and wider social issues in the news recently) it should be clear that disbelieving potential victims due to your initial biases is a terrible way to proceed.

Whatever happens there needs to be an investigation into how the referee handled this. Given his location he is the closest there is to a good, unbiased witness. If he heard that he had to have acted there and then.

A couple of my mates who are blues have been saying that they believe that the referee heard it and told the 4th official and they decided between them that the best course of action was to do nothing on the pitch but to pass it up the chain. The reason for this being that Firmino only gets a 3 match ban for the red card and the issue has been dealt with leaving the FA powerless to act, whereas if the referee does nothing the FA can deal with it properly and impose a more appropriate penalty.

To me this is nonsense and completely wrong if a referee has witnessed the a racist comment he has to impose the harshest penalty that he can at the time (which would be a red card), document it and assist the FA in the following enquiry who will bring additional charges. If he has heard the comment and done nothing then there are serious questions to be answered and he should probably never referee again.

If there are other people backing up Holgate's claim then there are questions to be asked about why the referee didn't hear it and possibly review the use of the microphones the referee wears (I still have no idea if this is recorded or if it is just a means of the ref talking to the 4th official, whether it runs all the time or has to be activated or what).

I'm not sure what the procedure for dealing with these types of allegations are, but assuming that the referee didn't hear anything and therefore there is nothing that he could do in terms of punishment, I assume discussing it with the 4th official is immediately and documenting things as soon as possible is the appropriate thing to do and I think that is what he did.

[Shaggy]

A couple of my mates who are blues have been saying that they believe that the referee heard it and told the 4th official and they decided between them that the best course of action was to do nothing on the pitch but to pass it up the chain. The reason for this being that Firmino only gets a 3 match ban for the red card and the issue has been dealt with leaving the FA powerless to act, whereas if the referee does nothing the FA can deal with it properly and impose a more appropriate penalty.

To me this is nonsense and completely wrong if a referee has witnessed the a racist comment he has to impose the harshest penalty that he can at the time (which would be a red card), document it and assist the FA in the following enquiry who will bring additional charges. If he has heard the comment and done nothing then there are serious questions to be answered and he should probably never referee again.

If there are other people backing up Holgate's claim then there are questions to be asked about why the referee didn't hear it and possibly review the use of the microphones the referee wears (I still have no idea if this is recorded or if it is just a means of the ref talking to the 4th official, whether it runs all the time or has to be activated or what).

I'm not sure what the procedure for dealing with these types of allegations are, but assuming that the referee didn't hear anything and therefore there is nothing that he could do in terms of punishment, I assume discussing it with the 4th official is immediately and documenting things as soon as possible is the appropriate thing to do and I think that is what he did.

Ha. Yeah, if a ref hears racist abuse on the pitch he sends him off instantly ffs.

[labourRed]

A couple of my mates who are blues have been saying that they believe that the referee heard it and told the 4th official and they decided between them that the best course of action was to do nothing on the pitch but to pass it up the chain. The reason for this being that Firmino only gets a 3 match ban for the red card and the issue has been dealt with leaving the FA powerless to act, whereas if the referee does nothing the FA can deal with it properly and impose a more appropriate penalty.

To me this is nonsense and completely wrong if a referee has witnessed the a racist comment he has to impose the harshest penalty that he can at the time (which would be a red card), document it and assist the FA in the following enquiry who will bring additional charges. If he has heard the comment and done nothing then there are serious questions to be answered and he should probably never referee again.

If there are other people backing up Holgate's claim then there are questions to be asked about why the referee didn't hear it and possibly review the use of the microphones the referee wears (I still have no idea if this is recorded or if it is just a means of the ref talking to the 4th official, whether it runs all the time or has to be activated or what).

I'm not sure what the procedure for dealing with these types of allegations are, but assuming that the referee didn't hear anything and therefore there is nothing that he could do in terms of punishment, I assume discussing it with the 4th official is immediately and documenting things as soon as possible is the appropriate thing to do and I think that is what he did.

The ref didn't hear anything - that's as plain as day, your blues mates have just concocted the rest of this.

[Exiled_red]

Ha. Yeah, if a ref hears racist abuse on the pitch he sends him off instantly ffs.

It's total madness, but I've heard a few blues making this argument, they seem convinced that is what has happened.

[Exiled_red]

The ref didn't hear anything - that's as plain as day, your blues mates have just concocted the rest of this.