Jürgen Klopp

[Fredo]

Jürgen Klopp

We won’t get a centre half now simply because it would require a player well versed in our system to come in and slot right in. If we do get a stop gap and he starts making mistakes what would that solve? If there were any signings to be made at centre half they would have had to be made last summer. As I said, we chose to prioritise midfield and attack and get some cover for Robbo instead. We have been unfortunate to lose our first choice pairing.

Looking around for players moving this window and there are not many. Issue is exacerbated by the Covid situation and the finances of most clubs.

I understand the stance of the club to play the long game at the moment when there is so much uncertainty around. Fans won’t be back in stadiums until next year and even that it’s not a given at all.

[npinn001]

We won’t get a centre half now simply because it would require a player well versed in our system to come in and slot right in. If we do get a stop gap and he starts making mistakes what would that solve? If there were any signings to be made at centre half they would have had to be made last summer. As I said, we chose to prioritise midfield and attack and get some cover for Robbo instead. We have been unfortunate to lose our first choice pairing.

Looking around for players moving this window and there are not many. Issue is exacerbated by the Covid situation and the finances of most clubs.

I understand the stance of the club to play the long game at the moment when there is so much uncertainty around. Fans won’t be back in stadiums until next year and even that it’s not a given at all.

I think the problem this window is those clubs that need money, need it now and not in installments. Those clubs buying can't pony up the cash in one go either, so there is no point selling.

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[red g]

We won’t get a centre half now simply because it would require a player well versed in our system to come in and slot right in. If we do get a stop gap and he starts making mistakes what would that solve? If there were any signings to be made at centre half they would have had to be made last summer. As I said, we chose to prioritise midfield and attack and get some cover for Robbo instead. We have been unfortunate to lose our first choice pairing.

Looking around for players moving this window and there are not many. Issue is exacerbated by the Covid situation and the finances of most clubs.

I understand the stance of the club to play the long game at the moment when there is so much uncertainty around. Fans won’t be back in stadiums until next year and even that it’s not a given at all.

Brining Umtiti oR Garay in for instance both players apparently availiable would be an instant improvement as they are quality players. ,Williams can be as well versed in our system as much as he wants its still not going to stop him being League Two quality.

[Pablo]

Brining Umtiti oR Garay in for instance both players apparently availiable would be an instant improvement as they are quality players. ,Williams can be as well versed in our system as much as he wants its still not going to stop him being League Two quality.

Feel sorry for Williams but he's looked every bit a Kidderminster Harriers player lately. So slow, immobile and clumsy. He's repeating the same type of mistakes too, which is a worry, and every team we play against knows how to target him.

[spud_gun]

Brining Umtiti oR Garay in for instance both players apparently availiable would be an instant improvement as they are quality players. ,Williams can be as well versed in our system as much as he wants its still not going to stop him being League Two quality.

There's no point bringing in a stop gap.

The season's gone at this point.

We're not winning the league at this juncture. If we were bringing in a CB we'd have done so in the first few days of January.

Might as well save whatever money we'd splash on a stop gap and put it towards a first choice partner for Virgil in the summer.

[McDermotX]

Still a CL to play for.

How much further do you think we can get with a defensive performance such as yesterday's?

Going all the way would match Rafa's first time.

[spud_gun]

We're not winning the Champions League.

On current form we're not beating Leipzig

[danperkins]

I am of the same thinking as you in that we both agree that a CB (or two) are badly needed now rather than in the summer.

However I don't think it is as simple as just going out and getting someone. Finances are all over the place and getting in a CB, buying not loaning, that is of the standard we need and that has the qualities that Klopp seems to value in a CB would be either very expensive or be part of a very short list of names that may be at clubs that are unwilling to sell to us in January.

The loan option however seems, to me anyway, to be a bit of a no brainer as it gives us the chance of getting in a short term fix that is of higher calibre than either Wiliams or Philips with less outlay than a purchase and the short term nature means we are not stuck with a player long term if he does not work out. The lack of a loan move I suspect may be down to Klopp more than the owners as it has long been rumoured that he prefers to bring in a player he can work with long term over a player that will only be making up the numbers for five or six months. As said earlier in the thread, Militao on a loan with an option to buy really seems a very obvious short term fix that would have the potential to be a long term boon.

I also have a feeling that another reason, on top of any financial reasons, that we may not be moving for a CB is that one (or two) of the CBs that Klopp really wants currently play at Leipzig ( Mukiele, Konate and Upamecano) and that getting one from there in January would be very difficult given they play us in the CL next and they are second in their own league.

absolutely a loan move is what I thought we would do as a minimum, Militao would have been a great shout. Obviously we don't know what is going on behind the scenes etc but unfortunately we can see exactly what the issue is on the pitch and everyone knows it. Teams are actively targeting this weakness and why wouldn't they. It's a difficult situation but one that we have had two chances to remedy. We all asked questions in the summer about a replacement for Lovren. The club clearly decided that we had Fab that could cover and also Williams/Philips who could step in the odd time in a tight spot. That was a calculated risk but thinking about it now of those CB options, two of them have a horrible injury history in Matip and Gomez, two are kids & one of them is a top class CM who is absolutely vital to us in that area. It was a bad decision and seems very naïve.

In a season that we knew would be chaos with covid, it really does seem a very short sighted decision. VVD injured was a surprise but Gomez and Matip not so much and we clearly underestimated the importance of Fabinho in that midfield and the balance he provides to the team. The market shuts on Feb 1st, Gomez and VVD won't be back any time soon and we desperately need Fab in that midfield. His absence imo is really effecting Thiago who cannot do what he does best as he is doing too much donkey work (I wouldn't be surprised if he picks up an injury soon). A world class pass master who is being absolutely wasted imo. FSG have to make a decision (if it's not too late already) whether they feel a short term outlay will in fact benefit us in the long term. IMO from a footballing point of view it is a no brainer, games will come thick and fast with champs league fixtures Matip cannot play a few games in a week and i expect him to get injured. Even worse is what happens if Fab gets injured, how many games do we expect him to play? He has made two crucial mistakes in back to back games but I do not blame him at all.

Matip wasn't even on the bench last night. I thought it was bizarre, why not have him there as a just in case? And sure enough Williams had a nightmare. It would have been perfect to whip him and bring Matip on. Matip there imo we win that game no question. That kid will be ruined, he clearly isn't up to standard and I feel for him but he is a total liability playing in the first team.

The worry is we could be seeing him there a few more times this season, maybe Hendo too, maybe Williams & Philips partnership. This is the reality of our situation, it just takes Fab to get injured and things get even worse. We played a 19 year old kid vs a high flying top of the league Man United side at Old Trafford who was playing non league football last season and has played a handful of mins for our first team. We are the champions ffs, let that piece of info sink in, is it just me who finds that crazy!? It really has ****ed the whole balance of the side and the core of the team. Thiago running around like a greyhound not being able to do his magic on the ball, what seems a very distracted Wijnaldum & the best forward line in world football the last few years all having nightmares at the same time. The knock on effects to not covering our bases at CB have really poisoned the continuity of what usually is a world class football team & one that took blood, sweat and tears to cultivate.

We are the premier league champions, recent Champs league winners & world class players peppered throughout the side, it beggars belief that we are in this situation. If the owners are that concerned about the bottom line which is absolutely understandable considering the climate, you would think with what has gone this season that they surely must have huge concerns about potentional loss in revenue that comes with failure & the repercussions that comes with that at top level sport. Klopp has over achieved massively, what he has done for this club is nothing short of a colossal achievement. If our net spent under Klopp reflected our league position every season we would be playing in the Europa league every year. There is only so many miracles the guy can perform.

[npinn001]

There's no point bringing in a stop gap.



The season's gone at this point.



We're not winning the league at this juncture. If we were bringing in a CB we'd have done so in the first few days of January.



Might as well save whatever money we'd splash on a stop gap and put it towards a first choice partner for Virgil in the summer.

I thought the same (about first few days of Jan) but I actually think it will all happen late. It has to make sense that right now selling clubs want 100% deals and it's putting people off.

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[Doc_Piptorious]

absolutely a loan move is what I thought we would do as a minimum, Militao would have been a great shout. Obviously we don't know what is going on behind the scenes etc but unfortunately we can see exactly what the issue is on the pitch and everyone knows it. Teams are actively targeting this weakness and why wouldn't they. It's a difficult situation but one that we have had two chances to remedy. We all asked questions in the summer about a replacement for Lovren. The club clearly decided that we had Fab that could cover and also Williams/Philips who could step in the odd time in a tight spot. That was a calculated risk but thinking about it now of those CB options, two of them have a horrible injury history in Matip and Gomez, two are kids & one of them is a top class CM who is absolutely vital to us in that area. It was a bad decision and seems very naïve.

In a season that we knew would be chaos with covid, it really does seem a very short sighted decision. VVD injured was a surprise but Gomez and Matip not so much and we clearly underestimated the importance of Fabinho in that midfield and the balance he provides to the team. The market shuts on Feb 1st, Gomez and VVD won't be back any time soon and we desperately need Fab in that midfield. His absence imo is really effecting Thiago who cannot do what he does best as he is doing too much donkey work (I wouldn't be surprised if he picks up an injury soon). A world class pass master who is being absolutely wasted imo. FSG have to make a decision (if it's not too late already) whether they feel a short term outlay will in fact benefit us in the long term. IMO from a footballing point of view it is a no brainer, games will come thick and fast with champs league fixtures Matip cannot play a few games in a week and i expect him to get injured. Even worse is what happens if Fab gets injured, how many games do we expect him to play? He has made two crucial mistakes in back to back games but I do not blame him at all.

Matip wasn't even on the bench last night. I thought it was bizarre, why not have him there as a just in case? And sure enough Williams had a nightmare. It would have been perfect to whip him and bring Matip on. Matip there imo we win that game no question. That kid will be ruined, he clearly isn't up to standard and I feel for him but he is a total liability playing in the first team.

The worry is we could be seeing him there a few more times this season, maybe Hendo too, maybe Williams & Philips partnership. This is the reality of our situation, it just takes Fab to get injured and things get even worse. We played a 19 year old kid vs a high flying top of the league Man United side at Old Trafford who was playing non league football last season and has played a handful of mins for our first team. We are the champions ffs, let that piece of info sink in, is it just me who finds that crazy!? It really has ****ed the whole balance of the side and the core of the team. Thiago running around like a greyhound not being able to do his magic on the ball, what seems a very distracted Wijnaldum & the best forward line in world football the last few years all having nightmares at the same time. The knock on effects to not covering our bases at CB have really poisoned the continuity of what usually is a world class football team & one that took blood, sweat and tears to cultivate.

We are the premier league champions, recent Champs league winners & world class players peppered throughout the side, it beggars belief that we are in this situation. If the owners are that concerned about the bottom line which is absolutely understandable considering the climate, you would think with what has gone this season that they surely must have huge concerns about potentional loss in revenue that comes with failure & the repercussions that comes with that at top level sport. Klopp has over achieved massively, what he has done for this club is nothing short of a colossal achievement. If our net spent under Klopp reflected our league position every season we would be playing in the Europa league every year. There is only so many miracles the guy can perform.

What if it is a case that the owners do not want to, or cannot, sanction a big money signing of a CB this window and also that Klopp does not want to bring in someone like Militao (Brazilian CB to partner our Brazilian stand in CB and to play in front of our Brazilan goalkeeper) or Umtiti on loan?

I can get the arguement against buying a top quality CB or a CB that looks like he may become top quality this window due to financial issues. But the reluctance or seeming reluctance to go after a decent to maybe high quality loan I find very strange.

The two guys I named are either confirmed as being available for a loan ( Militao ) or meant to be available (Umtiti).

Both are CBs with pace, both are decent to good in the air, both are aggressive, both range from having a decent level of first team experience to having a lot of first team experience. Sure they would not know our system and may make some errors, but both have the physical qualities that would allow them to compensate somewhat compared to our two slow moving young CBs who do know our system but who are being targetted in games due to a lack of pace and experience.

Militao in particular makes sense to me as he has been part of the same national team squads as Alisson, Fabinho and Firmino. He would be playing for us as part of a defensive triangle that could have both Alisson and Fab making up the rest of that GK/CB/CB trio so language would be no barrier. Physically he is closer to Gomez than VVD in terms of build, speed, and playing style albeit maybe a bit more aggressive than Joe so he has it that he is not overly dissimilar to what we are missing.

Umtiti would bring pace, strength, good passing ability, good aerial ability and the fact he prefers to play in the left CB slot. Plus like Militao he likes to carry the ball out of defence so not dissimilar to Gomez and VVD on that front.


For me the questions to ask are simple ones with regards loaning either (or both of them)

Are they more experienced tha Williams or Philips?

Are they better players than Williams or Philips?

Do they match the sort of physical qualities needs to play in a Klopp team?

Have they played in backlines that are part of teams that played with a high line and/or that have pressed as a unit?

Would one or both be an upgrade, even allowing for some teething errors, on our current back up options?


For me the answer is yes to each of those questions

[danperkins]

What if it is a case that the owners do not want to, or cannot, sanction a big money signing of a CB this window and also that Klopp does not want to bring in someone like Militao (Brazilian CB to partner our Brazilian stand in CB and to play in front of our Brazilan goalkeeper) or Umtiti on loan?

I can get the arguement against buying a top quality CB or a CB that looks like he may become top quality this window due to financial issues. But the reluctance or seeming reluctance to go after a decent to maybe high quality loan I find very strange.

The two guys I named are either confirmed as being available for a loan ( Militao ) or meant to be available (Umtiti).

Both are CBs with pace, both are decent to good in the air, both are aggressive, both range from having a decent level of first team experience to having a lot of first team experience. Sure they would not know our system and may make some errors, but both have the physical qualities that would allow them to compensate somewhat compared to our two slow moving young CBs who do know our system but who are being targetted in games due to a lack of pace and experience.

Militao in particular makes sense to me as he has been part of the same national team squads as Alisson, Fabinho and Firmino. He would be playing for us as part of a defensive triangle that could have both Alisson and Fab making up the rest of that GK/CB/CB trio so language would be no barrier. Physically he is closer to Gomez than VVD in terms of build, speed, and playing style albeit maybe a bit more aggressive than Joe so he has it that he is not overly dissimilar to what we are missing.

Umtiti would bring pace, strength, good passing ability, good aerial ability and the fact he prefers to play in the left CB slot. Plus like Militao he likes to carry the ball out of defence so not dissimilar to Gomez and VVD on that front.


For me the questions to ask are simple ones with regards loaning either (or both of them)

Are they more experienced tha Williams or Philips?

Are they better players than Williams or Philips?

Do they match the sort of physical qualities needs to play in a Klopp team?

Have they played in backlines that are part of teams that played with a high line and/or that have pressed as a unit?

Would one or both be an upgrade, even allowing for some teething errors, on our current back up options?


For me the answer is yes to each of those questions

Completely agree and Militao is one I got excited about about he is streets ahead of Williams & Philips and probably on the same level as Gomez. We have seen the advantage of having pacey CBs especially when you play a high line/ Militao has that in his locker and he has more top flight experience than Williams and Philips combined, same goes for Umtiti.

For me Militao challenges Gomez for his position. As you said the Brazilian boys are there so easy settle too, fast, strong, good on the ball and plays on the front foot. It makes sense on so many levels but obviously it isn't as easy as that and at this stage it ain't happening unfortunately

[Doc_Piptorious]

Completely agree and Militao is one I got excited about about he is streets ahead of Williams & Philips and probably on the same level as Gomez. We have seen the advantage of having pacey CBs especially when you play a high line/ Militao has that in his locker and he has more top flight experience than Williams and Philips combined, same goes for Umtiti.

For me Militao challenges Gomez for his position. As you said the Brazilian boys are there so easy settle too, fast, strong, good on the ball and plays on the front foot. It makes sense on so many levels but obviously it isn't as easy as that and at this stage it ain't happening unfortunately

Maybe but it should, in theory anyway, be easier to get a loan player in for six months compared to buying a player.

Course there is also the question of does a player want to come to us on loan or want to try and fight for his place at his parent club, and the big question of whether or not Klopp wants to bring in a loan player (or two) or is Klopp a man that would want his full time player in and would forgo attempting a loan option if he cannot get the man he wants in full time.

All speculation of course, but not trying for one of the guys available on loan makes far less sense than not buying a CB this window. The latter I can understand as it may simply not be financially viable or the right players may simply not be for sale this window.

Ha now I am mulling over the idea of getting in both Militao and Umtiti on loan for the rest of the season. Would give us those two guys plus Matip as our CB options so one plus Matip each game and both when Matip is out. Would allow Fab back into midfield so we would have Fab, Thiago, and Henderson available in the middle.

We would suddenly have some quality depth in the squad as we would not be using midfielders to cover the backline and our back up midfielders would go back to being back up for the middle rather than starting instead of those that are covering at the back.

[Irishnev]

There's no point bringing in a stop gap.

The season's gone at this point.

We're not winning the league at this juncture. If we were bringing in a CB we'd have done so in the first few days of January.

Might as well save whatever money we'd splash on a stop gap and put it towards a first choice partner for Virgil in the summer.

What if we don’t qualify for the champions league next year........that player may not be inclined to join us and may go to a club “ on the up” like United, City.....etc

I am completely get your point and it seems nuts to contemplate not qualifying for the CL when I thought we’d piss the league with Thiago. Right now we are a Fab injury away from Hendo and Williams as our CB pairing because Matip will get injured again.

That prudence becomes moot because without CL our budget gets blown up........and players may pass unless we throw money at them

[McDermotX]

We're not winning the Champions League.

On current form we're not beating Leipzig

So, just give up then yeah. Despite it being a probably more realistic target now, if, we can balance our squad in the right manner, than defending our title ?

I agree, that if we go out and play our defensive game in a similar manner to yesterday, it'll be tough, but there will be repercussions to not reinforcing. And thats before even talking about the fight for top four.

[BG1973]

There's no point bringing in a stop gap.

The season's gone at this point.

We're not winning the league at this juncture. If we were bringing in a CB we'd have done so in the first few days of January.

Might as well save whatever money we'd splash on a stop gap and put it towards a first choice partner for Virgil in the summer.

Unless a decent loan out there.

Damage was done in the summer, be a second wrong to bring in anyone permanent who's not gone through our usual checks etc.

I see it as an opportunity to set up our defence for years.