Jürgen Klopp

[Venton]

I’m not sure that Ljinders book was an amazing idea. It wasn’t an autobiography it was about our style, it showed a bit of arrogance.

There was a hell of a lot of back slapping going on pre season,

“Best group of lads ever”

“Here’s a book I wrote about how amazing, awesome and hard working we all are”.

I’m not a fan of self congratulation ever. It exposes a few weaknesses. These lads look like they need a proper rocket, because they are all capable of better than this. I’m sure the book in itself makes zero difference but it is emblematic of a mindset that we are now seeing on the pitch. ‘We’ve made it. This should be easy’.

It did seem like a bit of hubris to publish it whilst still employing those methods. Here's hoping the booksellers won't be filing it in the history section by the end of the season.

[Exiled_red]

It's the same squad as last season with the exception of Mane.

It's a squad that was lacking midfield options last year but to be honest got fairly lucky with injuries (Henderson and Fabinho started over 40 games each, Thiago 26, Keita 25 (and both featured in ~40 games in total), Jones started 18 and played in almost 30, Milner started 14 and played in almost 40, even Ox started 17 and played in 29). With the condensed season, players a year older and their more typical injury records I don't think we'll have those types of records (even accounting for the abnormally high number of games last season)

[Angryred]

It's a squad that was lacking midfield options last year but to be honest got fairly lucky with injuries (Henderson and Fabinho started over 40 games each, Thiago 26, Keita 25 (and both featured in ~40 games in total), Jones started 18 and played in almost 30, Milner started 14 and played in almost 40, even Ox started 17 and played in 29). With the condensed season, players a year older and their more typical injury records I don't think we'll have those types of records (even accounting for the abnormally high number of games last season)

Yep, & expected to do it all over again!

[baitman]

It's a squad that was lacking midfield options last year but to be honest got fairly lucky with injuries (Henderson and Fabinho started over 40 games each, Thiago 26, Keita 25 (and both featured in ~40 games in total), Jones started 18 and played in almost 30, Milner started 14 and played in almost 40, even Ox started 17 and played in 29). With the condensed season, players a year older and their more typical injury records I don't think we'll have those types of records (even accounting for the abnormally high number of games last season)

Exactly, we've fluked good league results with piss poor midfield and we have been papering over the cracks thanks to our attack, defence, fullbacks and goalie.
Now they have all decided to not bother we are left looking like a shipwreck of a team.
One 9-0 win and everyone was on the crack pipe but forgot about the underlying issues.
Too much hugging and everyone's best mate, how can you suddenly now start roaring at these lazy ****ers to motivate them...

[BG1973]

I’m not sure that Ljinders book was an amazing idea. It wasn’t an autobiography it was about our style, it showed a bit of arrogance.

There was a hell of a lot of back slapping going on pre season,

“Best group of lads ever”

“Here’s a book I wrote about how amazing, awesome and hard working we all are”.

I’m not a fan of self congratulation ever. It exposes a few weaknesses. These lads look like they need a proper rocket, because they are all capable of better than this. I’m sure the book in itself makes zero difference but it is emblematic of a mindset that we are now seeing on the pitch. ‘We’ve made it. This should be easy’.

He wrote a book? wow


Has Klopp written one? No

[Irishnev]

I’m not sure that Ljinders book was an amazing idea. It wasn’t an autobiography it was about our style, it showed a bit of arrogance.

There was a hell of a lot of back slapping going on pre season,

“Best group of lads ever”

“Here’s a book I wrote about how amazing, awesome and hard working we all are”.

I’m not a fan of self congratulation ever. It exposes a few weaknesses. These lads look like they need a proper rocket, because they are all capable of better than this. I’m sure the book in itself makes zero difference but it is emblematic of a mindset that we are now seeing on the pitch. ‘We’ve made it. This should be easy’.

And not just the players - all of them. We seem to think we are do much cleverer than everyone else, we don’t need any players because our algorithm says we’ll only gain one point a season by upgrading Milner to Bissouma (for example). I cannot fathom that after we couldn’t get Tchouameni that we thought there was no other midfielders better than what we had.

We did it with VVD - I get it, we waited, we didn’t compromise and it was right……. But we also missed Goetze and signed Mane, missed Brandt and signed Salah. If our recruitment is so good surely we have other options.

I don’t know if FSG won’t spend or Klopp won’t buy because of loyalty but it really feels like we have sleep walked into this. Yes we have been successful and yes we have a great manager/group but you strengthen from a position of strength. You let players go **** on other teams wages - Paisley did it, Fergie did it and yet we think lads are great because they set the standard in training. Our performances this year are a true reflection of the standard Milner and Hendo are producing in training. As soon as Thiago came on he showed what the real standard is

As you can see I’m ****ed off with this - we’ve been blessed in recent seasons. What a time to be a red, things can improve but they all need a proper shaking and a few punches thrown. They have to hold each other to account

[Corndog]

And not just the players - all of them. We seem to think we are do much cleverer than everyone else, we don’t need any players because our algorithm says we’ll only gain one point a season by upgrading Milner to Bissouma (for example). I cannot fathom that after we couldn’t get Tchouameni that we thought there was no other midfielders better than what we had.

We did it with VVD - I get it, we waited, we didn’t compromise and it was right……. But we also missed Goetze and signed Mane, missed Brandt and signed Salah. If our recruitment is so good surely we have other options.

I don’t know if FSG won’t spend or Klopp won’t buy because of loyalty but it really feels like we have sleep walked into this. Yes we have been successful and yes we have a great manager/group but you strengthen from a position of strength. You let players go **** on other teams wages - Paisley did it, Fergie did it and yet we think lads are great because they set the standard in training. Our performances this year are a true reflection of the standard Milner and Hendo are producing in training. As soon as Thiago came on he showed what the real standard is

As you can see I’m ****ed off with this - we’ve been blessed in recent seasons. What a time to be a red, things can improve but they all need a proper shaking and a few punches thrown. They have to hold each other to account

It’s not that there was no second option to Tchoumeni, it’s that the alternatives were not available within a price range the club could afford.

To improve the starting XI even in midfield, would have taken a 60mil plus pound player.

After spunking big cash on Diaz and Nunez, that type of cash was not there to be spent.

Mane and Salah were available within the clubs price range when they were bought.

[Paul12]

There is dramatic drop off in ...work rate across the whole team, it's bizarre.

Surely the only possible easons are:

1 We got the pre-season wrong.
2 We got the pre-season right and will see the benefits later in the season.
3 The players are not trying as hard either because of insufficient motivation or because they are non-believers (in the manager, the system or each other).

I don't think it is 2. I think all the injuries we have suggest that 1 is probably true, but I also think we have tried to tweak the system in a way that is not working/players do not think will work. So it is 3 too. (Hence the "reinvention" comments perhaps.)

[danperkins]

Surely the only possible easons are:

1 We got the pre-season wrong.
2 We got the pre-season right and will see the benefits later in the season.
3 The players are not trying as hard either because of insufficient motivation or because they are non-believers (in the manager, the system or each other).

I don't think it is 2. I think all the injuries we have suggest that 1 is probably true, but I also think we have tried to tweak the system in a way that is not working/players do not think will work. So it is 3 too. (Hence the "reinvention" comments perhaps.)

The system or/and the players playing within the system aren't working that is clear. But the frankly baffling individual drop off in form and intensity is something different. I don't know what it is or what is going on behind the scenes but our lads don't have any fight or desire and that has nothing got to do with a change in system. It's very concerning. One of two I would understand but Trent, Robbo, Mo, Henderson VVD, Fab it doesn't make sense.

[Mark79]

Surely the only possible easons are:

1 We got the pre-season wrong.
2 We got the pre-season right and will see the benefits later in the season.
3 The players are not trying as hard either because of insufficient motivation or because they are non-believers (in the manager, the system or each other).

I don't think it is 2. I think all the injuries we have suggest that 1 is probably true, but I also think we have tried to tweak the system in a way that is not working/players do not think will work. So it is 3 too. (Hence the "reinvention" comments perhaps.)

The physical and mental exertion of last season has to be considered too.
On the back of 2020/21 which was also a difficult one for other reasons.
Plus’s the 2/3 years of intense performance before those, all with the same core of players.

[Bloodraven]

This could happen. If it does, Pepijn Lijnders should be given the job

Has he taken on a more active role this season?

[Irishnev]

It’s not that there was no second option to Tchoumeni, it’s that the alternatives were not available within a price range the club could afford.

To improve the starting XI even in midfield, would have taken a 60mil plus pound player.

After spunking big cash on Diaz and Nunez, that type of cash was not there to be spent.

Mane and Salah were available within the clubs price range when they were bought.

Sorry I’m not having that argument - we needed to improve the midfield, as a whole. We supposedly have 8 options as we know it’s a squad game and tgd games are coming thick and fast tight now:

Fab - keep and mainstay 6
Hendo - probably best as the backup 6, struggling as the right sided 8 and cannot play the left sided 8
Thiago - best as left sided 8 and can also play right sided 8 to a high quality

If that is Klopp’s preferred 3 then we have Thiago very injury prone, Hendo not great and injury prone, Fab picks up niggles and needs managing

Now to the rest

Naby - back up to Thiago to left sided 8 but currently ostracized and made of biscuits. Not worked gif him or us and should’ve been sold
Milner - less said the better. Should’ve been released
Elliot - a kid who’s doing his best but hasn’t the tactical awareness yet and isn’t the best defensively
Jones - I don’t know what he is but it seems to involve him missing loads of games
Ox - as above

So you mean to tell me that we couldn’t have replaced Naby, Ox and Milner with two players who would’ve improved the midfield group? Yes we got Arthur but he hasn’t played since last season so needs to be brought up to fitness

Núñes - 35m
Bissouma - 25m
Onana - 35m
Paqueta - 50m
Kamara - free
Doucoure - 30m
Palhinha - 30m
Phillips - 40m
Gravenberch - 20m
Parades - loan
Anguissa - 13m
Gini - loan
Kessie - free

That is a sample of players who moved this summer all within our sweet spot of cost that would give us energy, new blood and strength in midfield. This fixation with getting the ‘one’ infuriates me. We need a squad and rotation especially in midfield which works so hard for us

[danperkins]

Sorry I’m not having that argument - we needed to improve the midfield, as a whole. We supposedly have 8 options as we know it’s a squad game and tgd games are coming thick and fast tight now:

Fab - keep and mainstay 6
Hendo - probably best as the backup 6, struggling as the right sided 8 and cannot play the left sided 8
Thiago - best as left sided 8 and can also play right sided 8 to a high quality

If that is Klopp’s preferred 3 then we have Thiago very injury prone, Hendo not great and injury prone, Fab picks up niggles and needs managing

Now to the rest

Naby - back up to Thiago to left sided 8 but currently ostracized and made of biscuits. Not worked gif him or us and should’ve been sold
Milner - less said the better. Should’ve been released
Elliot - a kid who’s doing his best but hasn’t the tactical awareness yet and isn’t the best defensively
Jones - I don’t know what he is but it seems to involve him missing loads of games
Ox - as above

So you mean to tell me that we couldn’t have replaced Naby, Ox and Milner with two players who would’ve improved the midfield group? Yes we got Arthur but he hasn’t played since last season so needs to be brought up to fitness

Núñes - 35m
Bissouma - 25m
Onana - 35m
Paqueta - 50m
Kamara - free
Doucoure - 30m
Palhinha - 30m
Phillips - 40m
Gravenberch - 20m
Parades - loan
Anguissa - 13m
Gini - loan
Kessie - free

That is a sample of players who moved this summer all within our sweet spot of cost that would give us energy, new blood and strength in midfield. This fixation with getting the ‘one’ infuriates me. We need a squad and rotation especially in midfield which works so hard for us

nail on the head stuff.

[Harv]

The Gravenberch and Kessie ones stick out. We'd been linked to both at various times.

[Corndog]

Sorry I’m not having that argument - we needed to improve the midfield, as a whole. We supposedly have 8 options as we know it’s a squad game and tgd games are coming thick and fast tight now:

Fab - keep and mainstay 6
Hendo - probably best as the backup 6, struggling as the right sided 8 and cannot play the left sided 8
Thiago - best as left sided 8 and can also play right sided 8 to a high quality

If that is Klopp’s preferred 3 then we have Thiago very injury prone, Hendo not great and injury prone, Fab picks up niggles and needs managing

Now to the rest

Naby - back up to Thiago to left sided 8 but currently ostracized and made of biscuits. Not worked gif him or us and should’ve been sold
Milner - less said the better. Should’ve been released
Elliot - a kid who’s doing his best but hasn’t the tactical awareness yet and isn’t the best defensively
Jones - I don’t know what he is but it seems to involve him missing loads of games
Ox - as above

So you mean to tell me that we couldn’t have replaced Naby, Ox and Milner with two players who would’ve improved the midfield group? Yes we got Arthur but he hasn’t played since last season so needs to be brought up to fitness

Núñes - 35m
Bissouma - 25m
Onana - 35m
Paqueta - 50m
Kamara - free
Doucoure - 30m
Palhinha - 30m
Phillips - 40m
Gravenberch - 20m
Parades - loan
Anguissa - 13m
Gini - loan
Kessie - free

That is a sample of players who moved this summer all within our sweet spot of cost that would give us energy, new blood and strength in midfield. This fixation with getting the ‘one’ infuriates me. We need a squad and rotation especially in midfield which works so hard for us

Firstly, there’s no need to apologise, you can take any argument you want or not.

I’m not saying squad players couldn’t have been improved. I’m saying there’s two world class CMs in the first XI and if you want a third one, you need to spend big because the pool is small. None of those CMs in your list are good enough to start at LFC except the Gini of a couple of seasons ago.

It’s a trade off with the money available, either you go big for a truly world class player or you buy players good enough to be squad players. The team appeared to be at a point in its evolution where a genuine first xi CM was needed but couldn’t be sourced.

At the same time, a world class forward left and another has been in decline for two seasons.

The money went to trying to improve the forward line when a first eleven CM decided to go to another club. It’s really that simple and hindsight is easy to see.

The club have been trying to gradually transition but declining key players (VVD, Hendo, Firmino) and the loss of mane and Gini has weakened the spine of a great team.

Not advocating for VVD to be sold, he’ll obviously still be a key player but he’s not the player who didn’t let anyone dribble past him for a season and the team can’t expect that from him in order to keep a clean sheet.

Elliot, Diaz and Nunez aren’t ready to be at the level of the players they replaced and will take time to develop to that level if they can get to it.