Jürgen Klopp

[RedReet]

I might be a loan voice here, but I like FSG. Apart from the super league fiasco and ticket price hikes, which they listened to, They run the club within its means and have steadily built up the infrastructure and the commercial streams. If you remove the financial doping clubs out of the equation, then we are in the top two or three clubs in European football. Don’t get me wrong, as fans we always want more, that extra couple of players…..there’s always someone in any squad who you want replacing, no matter how good you are. I think people are quick to forget where we were before FSG came along. I for one have enjoyed seeing us battling for trophies over the last few years and that is in no small part to due to Klopp, the staff and good governance. A little patience wouldn’t go amiss. A relatively slow start to the season….I can take that, nobody ever wins all the games. That’s what I love about football.

We've went through this with FSG every time we have a couple of bad results. Granted things are pretty bleak right now, but as was previously highlighted, we were a few results away from eclipsing everything that's ever been achieved in English football.

Unrelated to FSG, but the suggestions that Klopp / the club are struggling without Edwards reminds me a bit of when 'the Brain' left and we hit a bit of a rough patch and everyone jumped to the wrong conclusion then.

[wiw]

I know we did and it’s equally baffling and terrifying how we’ve dropped so far off a cliff. Injuries have been a huge issue but we have sleep walked into a midfield **** show on their watch - maybe they have offered Klopp bag loads of money for players and he said no or maybe they are tight arses….. I don’t know

I applaud our model but for it work we need to be elite in the market - we were for a few years but recent windows have seen us scrambling last minute on stop gap loans which in hindsight have been shocking decisions. In addition we have no salable assets to give us the cash injections we need such as Phil funding Ali and VVD

I agree that we've walked into a bit of a midfield **** show, but we obviously managed last season.. I still think injuries have been the real spanner in the works tbh. Look at total minutes played last season:

Henderson - 3,846
Fabinho - 3,693
Thiago - 2,386
Keita - 2,088
Jones 1,529
Ox - 1,525
Milner - 1,371

Interestingly enough, the above minutes are fairly comparable with Manchester City's midfielders for last season

From what I remember, Ox barely played after January. Keita and Jones were our 4th and 5th most used midfielders last season and before Forest they'd played a combined 0 minutes between them this season. We obviously managed last season because 1 or 2 were out at a time, but it's really exposed our lack of strength in depth this season and the problem compounds itself when you're running Fab/Hendo into the ground and now having to manage their minutes (especially after last season)

[SB]

We can't imo, we clearly have scraped every iota out of the players we have, within the budget we have. It has been an incredible over achievement but it is not a level playing field and competing for the biggest trophies year after year whilst selling to buy most seasons is a short term thing imo. Eventually money will win out, it always does.

Yeah it’d take a huge change in philosophy from the owners to invest so heavily to compete with the oil rich scum.

[Exiled_red]

I might be a loan voice here, but I like FSG. Apart from the super league fiasco and ticket price hikes, which they listened to, They run the club within its means and have steadily built up the infrastructure and the commercial streams. If you remove the financial doping clubs out of the equation, then we are in the top two or three clubs in European football. Don’t get me wrong, as fans we always want more, that extra couple of players…..there’s always someone in any squad who you want replacing, no matter how good you are. I think people are quick to forget where we were before FSG came along. I for one have enjoyed seeing us battling for trophies over the last few years and that is in no small part to due to Klopp, the staff and good governance. A little patience wouldn’t go amiss. A relatively slow start to the season….I can take that, nobody ever wins all the games. That’s what I love about football.

They have done great but I think we are approaching the point where they can’t afford to complete with the country backed clubs.

That's probably true, the issue here is that the only way to compete is to join them in becoming state owned but is that what we want and is that realistic expectation? They aren't perfect but in a world where there was something resembling a level playing field (FFP or whatever) they would be considered good owners IMO. Wanting state ownership because others have got it isn't really a sensible approach

[Irishnev]

That's probably true, the issue here is that the only way to compete is to join them in becoming state owned but is that what we want and is that realistic expectation? They aren't perfect but in a world where there was something resembling a level playing field (FFP or whatever) they would be considered good owners IMO. Wanting state ownership because others have got it isn't really a sensible approach

If they just spent more either via loans or direct cash injection they’d be perfect owners

[danperkins]

Yeah it’d take a huge change in philosophy from the owners to invest so heavily to compete with the oil rich scum.

[Exiled_red]

If they just spent more either via loans or direct cash injection they’d be perfect owners

The clubs are supposed to be self sustaining, if you are reliant on owners injecting cash then the club isn't, you're essentially asking for a sugar daddy. Loans aren't really much better from a financial point of view the assumption is that revenue will be higher in future and that growth will cover the cost of the loans if it doesn't the loans put you in a worse financial position down the line than you are in now and people will complain alot more.

FFP needed to be properly enforced.

[el matador]

If he’s scoring at this rate now what’s he going to be like once klopp has worked with him for a couple of years.

[Irishnev]

The clubs are supposed to be self sustaining, if you are reliant on owners injecting cash then the club isn't, you're essentially asking for a sugar daddy. Loans aren't really much better from a financial point of view the assumption is that revenue will be higher in future and that growth will cover the cost of the loans if it doesn't the loans put you in a worse financial position down the line than you are in now and people will complain alot more.

FFP needed to be properly enforced.

FFP in its newest form is another sham - we need to invest now SIGNIFICANTLY to secure our future. Talking out a long term loan that is within our means to pay back is what many clubs do - Spurs and Arsenal being two

Nothing reckless but we need to revamp the squad or risk another barren spell. Our recruitment team have found some of the best value for money signings - tryst them to do their job

[danperkins]

FFP in its newest form is another sham - we need to invest now SIGNIFICANTLY to secure our future. Talking out a long term loan that is within our means to pay back is what many clubs do - Spurs and Arsenal being two

Nothing reckless but we need to revamp the squad or risk another barren spell. Our recruitment team have found some of the best value for money signings - tryst them to do their job

[wiw]

FFP in its newest form is another sham - we need to invest now SIGNIFICANTLY to secure our future. Talking out a long term loan that is within our means to pay back is what many clubs do - Spurs and Arsenal being two

Nothing reckless but we need to revamp the squad or risk another barren spell. Our recruitment team have found some of the best value for money signings - tryst them to do their job

The regulation limits spending on wages, transfers, and agent fees to 70 per cent of club revenue.

How is taking a loan out going to stop us breaking the new FFP? Or are you suggesting we flagrantly break it

[Irishnev]

How is taking a loan out going to stop us breaking the new FFP? Or are you suggesting we flagrantly break it

The new FFP relates to amortization and wage to turn over ratio - bin high earning under achievers and buy younger hungrier players on lower wages - simple

Oh and get some crypto, betting, above board ( ) esque sponsors like some of our rivals have

[wiw]

The new FFP relates to amortization and wage to turn over ratio - bin high earning under achievers and buy younger hungrier players on lower wages - simple

Oh and get some crypto, betting, above board ( ) esque sponsors like some of our rivals have

Which high earning under achievers?

The transfer fee of someone like Ox would be fully amortised by now, so only his wages are going through our P+L. Any transfer fee for a player we buy would make our amortization/wages to turnover ratio worse if anything

[Irishnev]

Which high earning under achievers?

The transfer fee of someone like Ox would be fully amortised by now, so only his wages are going through our P+L. Any transfer fee for a player we buy would make our amortization/wages to turnover ratio worse if anything

Amortization also needs to be considered when selling players - if we sold Ox for 15m last season then it would be all “credit” assuming his first contract cycle had passed. The point I am trying to make is for a few years we were elite at squad management - when Edwards was in the driving seat. I think Klopp’s success has given him a little more control and we are making emotive decisions. Extending Henderson, extending Milner, not selling Origi when his market value was high, same for Ox, same for others…..

I genuinely think it’s why Edwards left - we’ll never know. We’ve let our squad age together and extended a bunch of them when it would’ve made more sense to sell and we’ve let others run down their contracts. Klopp is partially to blame here due to his loyalty. We need a big injection of cash to revamp the squad - 3 or even 4 midfielders needed

[wiw]

Amortization also needs to be considered when selling players - if we sold Ox for 15m last season then it would be all “credit” assuming his first contract cycle had passed. The point I am trying to make is for a few years we were elite at squad management - when Edwards was in the driving seat. I think Klopp’s success has given him a little more control and we are making emotive decisions. Extending Henderson, extending Milner, not selling Origi when his market value was high, same for Ox, same for others…..

I genuinely think it’s why Edwards left - we’ll never know. We’ve let our squad age together and extended a bunch of them when it would’ve made more sense to sell and we’ve let others run down their contracts. Klopp is partially to blame here due to his loyalty. We need a big injection of cash to revamp the squad - 3 or even 4 midfielders needed

Fair point re sale of players - it wouldn't be a negative amortization charge though, it'd be in a separate disposal account. Not sure how FFP deals with this, do you?

I hope you're wrong re Edwards but I guess we will find out sooner or later. I don't think we need a huge revamp as such, but agree we need 3+ in, especially if we have players going the other way. Hoping that having been relatively inactive we have a bit of spare cash