Jürgen Klopp

[5europeancups]

I dont blame Jurgen. This time last year liverpool were flying. This season has seen tired players, injures and no real talent from the youth coming through. The clubs policy has been to sell big and buy well. We should have sold salah and invested but we didnt.
Our thirty year olds are paying the price for last season. You cannot run a marathon each week and not suffer consequences.fabihno and virgil and robertson and henderson have been knackered and unable to boss possession.
Liverpool have been deflated this year. Have we played well for a whole match?

Even Liverpool v manpoo was flattering.

We need a clearout. New blood.

[Irishnev]

I dont blame Jurgen. This time last year liverpool were flying. This season has seen tired players, injures and no real talent from the youth coming through. The clubs policy has been to sell big and buy well. We should have sold salah and invested but we didnt.
Our thirty year olds are paying the price for last season. You cannot run a marathon each week and not suffer consequences.fabihno and virgil and robertson and henderson have been knackered and unable to boss possession.
Liverpool have been deflated this year. Have we played well for a whole match?

Even Liverpool v manpoo was flattering.

We need a clearout. New blood.

I don’t blame Klopp for all of it but he carries some of the blame. He hasn’t adapted tactically at all this season and we are too easy to play through, his loyalty to under performing players is hurting us now as we’ve no adequate replacements, he continues to play Elliott in midfield and refuses to rotate when he can which leads to complacency and tiredness

He’s an absolute legend and a world class manager but he, like most at the club has had a shocker of a season

[Kenneth]

I dont blame Jurgen. This time last year liverpool were flying. This season has seen tired players, injures and no real talent from the youth coming through. The clubs policy has been to sell big and buy well. We should have sold salah and invested but we didnt.
Our thirty year olds are paying the price for last season. You cannot run a marathon each week and not suffer consequences.fabihno and virgil and robertson and henderson have been knackered and unable to boss possession.
Liverpool have been deflated this year. Have we played well for a whole match?

Even Liverpool v manpoo was flattering.

We need a clearout. New blood.

KDB is 2 years older than Fabinho, played a similar number of games last year and went to the World Cup. Bruno Fernandes is less than a year younger, played more games than Fab and played in the World Cup. It seems to be just our 30 year olds that have a problem with game time. Robertson has a very capable back up sitting in the stands. Henderson is no worse this year than last. Almost everyone saw this midfield issue coming and we spent way over £100m on attackers.

We put two struggling midfielders + 1 in a midfield three and can’t compete. We fail to overlap the fullbacks properly and struggle to create for our forwards. We do the same thing week after week. There is no attempt to mitigate for our weaknesses, surprise our opponents, or to counter the tactics of our opponents. As I’ve said, there are reasons to do with injury and form that explains why we are not as good as we were, but I don’t see any excuse for why we have lost the games that we have lost this season to teams who’ve put in more of a physical battle and kept better shape. Forest, Leeds, Bournemouth, battered by Brighton, wolves and to some extent, Brentford. It’s not good enough, and “the boys know what they need to do” isn’t good enough either.

Now we’ll go into next season with one arm tied behind our back, hoping to be involved in the fight for fourth. The man’s going to have to play a blinder to recover from this season.

[Buzzo]

But it can all change quickly, look at the improvements on Arsenal, Man Utd and Newcastle. Some of you are just determined to focus on the absolute worst possible outcomes across the board.

[red g]

Didn't they all employ new managers to improve?

[Kenneth]

Chelsea will probably be seeing similar improvement soon.

[baitman]

We put two struggling midfielders + 1 in a midfield three and can’t compete. We fail to overlap the fullbacks properly and struggle to create for our forwards. We do the same thing week after week. There is no attempt to mitigate for our weaknesses, surprise our opponents, or to counter the tactics of our opponents.

A good manager would see the issues and adjust to use what's available as best as possible.
To continually play a midfield 3 when their collective legs have gone, to give trent free reign to walk or jog and never challenge an opponent, to let all of our players watch man city fans "yey" every pass and sit back and never challenge for the ball...
Patch up where needed. Play a midfield 4 and be less vulnerable.
If klopp is such a good manager then why can't he adapt, ffs.
Even Kenny got sacked...

[Kenneth]

He’s clearly more than a good manager, he produced a winning formula in Germany and England and took second tier clubs to titles. He could go to Spain or Italy and do it again, of that I’m totally convinced. But we’re not in that position because he’s been here for so long. He combined an intense and amazingly watchable playing style with incredible levels of motivation, inspiring players to see their own level as well beyond the reality. But the question is what does he do when he’s done that, succeeded and then lost it? How do you get back that unquestionable confidence in the plan when you’ve seen the plan fall short? I’d imagine the only way to achieve it is to change all of the players and convince new ones.

[Fuzzy]

I have complete faith in Klopp and his ability, but he needs a lot of players to turn this around and we usually don't really spend that much. Even leaving aside any silly idea of Bellingham, how are we gonna suddenly bring in 4 or 5 key players in a year or two when it's been such a problem in the previous years when we earned great prize money and had players to sell for silly fees?

And secondly, what's the point of them if we're just gonna watch them get crooked all the time from being run into the ground or because they're injury prone. We already have a lot of quality players who have a lot to offer but seem to be always chasing the right fitness levels.

I think a lot needs to be changed at the club right now, not just bringing in a name or two and then again watch Milner and Henderson trying to get us a point at Brighton next year.

[Harv]

He’s clearly more than a good manager, he produced a winning formula in Germany and England and took second tier clubs to titles. He could go to Spain or Italy and do it again, of that I’m totally convinced. But we’re not in that position because he’s been here for so long. He combined an intense and amazingly watchable playing style with incredible levels of motivation, inspiring players to see their own level as well beyond the reality. But the question is what does he do when he’s done that, succeeded and then lost it? How do you get back that unquestionable confidence in the plan when you’ve seen the plan fall short? I’d imagine the only way to achieve it is to change all of the players and convince new ones.

Yep. Sell the lot of them (well the ones that look like they can't be arsed anymore) and start again.

[Tribute]

Everyone's had a shocker this season - players, medical team, but also Klopp and Ljinders.
We all knew about the midfield issues and brought in Arthur Pancake for eight minutes until he was flipped into the injury bay.

People moaning about spending on forwards instead of midfield - and yes it was an oversight just relying on a combo of Arthur and Keita'Ox to (finally) come good... but just imagine where we'd be without Nunez and Diaz. I know the latter has been injured for quite a while but he's shown to be more than a competent replacement for Mane and with Jota's and Bobby's injury records, it's a good job we had Darwin in when we did to shore up that forward line.

Summer is a big one. Sporting Director, transfer budget, landing top targets, still trying to get UCL football, stadium development, older player contracts, moving on the deadwood... Klopp's approach and attitude to all this is key. It's a massive job to coordinate all of the above.. and he is misguided if he thinks he can do it all on his own without a Sporting Director giving him new ideas and impetus, plus a cold hard look at older players contracts/injuries.

A lot to do and we've fallen a way off the pace as it stands. Fourth is looking a distant hope.

[Corndog]

The three midfielders I picked (the starters that is, not Aouar who would be a punt but then again I said he would be a squaddie) are all young but all three have either CL or International experience to go with their domestic form. All three have shown a lot of form for driving their teams on and being the ones who grind it out when their team is on the receiving end.

Adyemi is young too but he also has CL experience and has stood out against some very good teams, plus he is standing out in the same league that Bellingham is standing out in (same goes for Kone)


Klostermann is tried and trusted at RB and CB for Club (domestic and CL level) and also for the German national team.


N'Dicka has five years of looking good at Bundesliga level, is available on a free, looks to have all the physical qualities needed for the PL as well as being a good reader of the game, plus is available on a free so as a Matip replacement (who himself was a freebie from the Bundesliga) he makes sense to be the new number three CB with the aim to compete for a starting berth.


Gusto or Timber would be punts to fill back up slots, Both are highly rated and
if brought in as back ups they would have that bit more time to settle in, and as both have good reps we would probably make back what we spend on them.

Aouar is a freebie this summer and I would see him as replacing Keita/Chamberlain and he does have plenty of first team experience at domestic and CL level too. Would not have to be him but a player of that level of talent and in that age bracket.


They would all be gambles of course, no less and no more than signing Bellingham for the cost of three of them would be. Him doing well for Dortmund holds the same weight as the young guys I mentioned doing well in their leagues for me.

Him being English holds as much weight as Sancho being English and looking great at Dortmund. Same risk of not succeeeding.


My logic is by buying three very talented highly rated young midfielders for close to the price of one very highly rated very talented young midfielder is that you increase the chances of getting a home run.


Now if we can buy Bellingham AND add a couple lower priced played like Kone or Thuram into the mix at the same time that would be fantastic.


The other side of this is it was me just playing a bit of Fifa23 style transfer malarky in my earlier post with who I was selling and buying. Was easier to do something like that and imagine things being better than thinking too much about the performance against City that I had just watched.

That's a positive slant on things which is fine but Kone and Thuram haven't got near Bellingham in terms of goals and assists in the last 3 seasons and Jude is 2-3 years younger than them as well as captaining Dortmund at 19. Point taken around the price difference but there is currently a big gap in what those three players have achieved.

I know they have potential but are they really going to change the situation now? The risk seems big to me and they won't be coming for under 30mil at least when an English club comes knocking.

Klostermann is a decent right-back but nothing more, I don't think he's better than a mid table prem right back. Germany haven't had a proper one since Philipp Lahm and have resorted to playing midfielders like Can and Kimmich there for a lot of the interim, overlooking specialist right backs like Kehrer or Klostermann.

Timber looks interesting in the few games I've seen of him with Ajax and the Netherlands but he'd be quite expensive I think.

Haven't seen enough of Aour or Gusto to have an opinion but the gulf in class between any club in France or Germany that isn't Dortmund, FC Bayern or PSG and the top 6 in the prem is quite big in my opinion.

Need to find the right balance between potential and top talent that would improve the 1st XI now. Going too much one way or the other will be too risky or not affordable.

Whilst buying a greater quantity of players spreads the risk, I think it would be really hard to integrate more than 3-4 proper first teamers at once. My feeling is that huge wholesale changes rarely work because we (everyone from pundits to fans to managers) consistently underrate the collective value of a team vs the individual.

Chelsea would be the latest example and FC Union Berlin would be their antithesis

[Exiled_red]

As big a problem as personnel is in terms of needing new midfielders etc, there is also a mental / attitude problem with alot of the players that we have. A number of them aren't putting the hard yards in, tracking runners and are far too quick to flap their hands in the air at others when things go wrong, we need the mentality monsters back. IMO despite the limitations of the squad with the correct attitude we would have been well in contention for top 4 this year. We'd still need a re-build but things wouldn't be looking so bleak.

[Irishnev]

Gusto or Timber would be punts to fill back up slots, Both are highly rated and
if brought in as back ups they would have that bit more time to settle in, and as both have good reps we would probably make back what we spend on them

Joining Chelsea in the summer

[Doc_Piptorious]

That's a positive slant on things which is fine but Kone and Thuram haven't got near Bellingham in terms of goals and assists in the last 3 seasons and Jude is 2-3 years younger than them as well as captaining Dortmund at 19. Point taken around the price difference but there is currently a big gap in what those three players have achieved.

I know they have potential but are they really going to change the situation now? The risk seems big to me and they won't be coming for under 30mil at least when an English club comes knocking.

Klostermann is a decent right-back but nothing more, I don't think he's better than a mid table prem right back. Germany haven't had a proper one since Philipp Lahm and have resorted to playing midfielders like Can and Kimmich there for a lot of the interim, overlooking specialist right backs like Kehrer or Klostermann.

Timber looks interesting in the few games I've seen of him with Ajax and the Netherlands but he'd be quite expensive I think.

Haven't seen enough of Aour or Gusto to have an opinion but the gulf in class between any club in France or Germany that isn't Dortmund, FC Bayern or PSG and the top 6 in the prem is quite big in my opinion.

Need to find the right balance between potential and top talent that would improve the 1st XI now. Going too much one way or the other will be too risky or not affordable.

Whilst buying a greater quantity of players spreads the risk, I think it would be really hard to integrate more than 3-4 proper first teamers at once. My feeling is that huge wholesale changes rarely work because we (everyone from pundits to fans to managers) consistently underrate the collective value of a team vs the individual.

Chelsea would be the latest example and FC Union Berlin would be their antithesis

Bellingham plays in a more advanced or attacking role for his team than either of Kone or Thuram does for their teams so goals/assists records do not come into it.

My logic with saying the two of them is based on whether or not I think the two of them brings a bigger imrovement to our team that Bellingham on his own does.

Bellingham would, if he settled and he is as big an if as any other player in that regard, would hopefully be a top class box to box number 8 type player that would be far superior to anyone we have at present for the role. So he would dramatically improve, if he settled of course, one position.


Now Kone and Thuram, and again with the same settling caveat as Bellingham but with the perk of their combined prices coming to 40 or 50m less that what Bellingham would cost, they may not be as eye catching as Bellingham on form (though Thuram is not exactly lacking on that front this season) but wouyld they improve the positions they are best in if they came to our team?

For my money Kone would improve our DM position and Thuram would be an improvement over and of our box top box guys. Maybe not quite as massive an inprovement as Bellingham might potentially be, but we would see two positions improved substantially rather than one position improved massively.

And improving two positions does more, imo of course, to improve the team as a unit than having one guy make one position top class.


Now Bellingham plus a couple others (with at least one of those others being good enough to go into the first team at DM) is a different story.


You say Kone and Thuram would be a risk at 30m each, they would of course, but Bellingham at 120m to 150m is an even bigger risk if he does not become a massive hit straight away if he signed. Bellingham would cost as much as two to three other players and would have to hit the ground running straight away and at a high level. He is also no more of a gauantee to be a success than any other young player coming from another team or from another league and being English carries little weight for me as mentioned in my earlier post as Sancho was playing for the same club as Bellingham, played in the same league, looked brilliant, is English, then he moved to England and has flopped.


Klostermann is a no frills really quick right back who is defensively sound, good in the air and who will work his arse off going forward and especially when defending. He is also a pretty solid centre back. He is nowhere close to being as good as an inform TAA but we have not seen an inform TAA for a spell of games for a year or more now and me selling TAA was more a way to raise fund in my fictional transfer dealing than me expecting it to happen in reality. But I am pretty confident in saying that Klostermann or any other right back of that level and with those physical qualities and work rate would have been better in our team than TAA.


Gusto or Aouar (the latter on a free) would be punts imo and guys brought in to be squaddies that might be good enough to challenge first teamers if they came good but who would still have value if they did not.

Timber was my and/or with Gusto guy. Fast, physical, good with thye ball and can play at RB as well as at CB. As with Gusto he would be the back up to Klostermann )or TAA if we doi not sell him in fictional world )

N'Dicka was my other CB and he is on a free this summer and looks really good. Again was not suggesting he comes in and just replaces VVD, but rather he would replace Matip if Matip leaves and N'Dicka for me is good enough to be our 3rd choice CB and young and good enough to pout some pressure on VVD to perform.


Adyemi is my right sided attacker option. Again a gamble but looks to have a ton of potential and if we wait for him to have a few good seasons in a row his price tag will skyrocket (not that he would be cheap) and I was only getting him if we did not get Bellingham in my fictional line up.