Boxing

[marcus50bucks]

One step too far for Canelo imo. Fans that know their boxing would have known that Canelo was going to have his hands full. Bivol is very good and strong.

Canelo needs to go back down to 168. He won't beat Bivol in a rematch. Also the 115-113 scorecard was a complete and utter joke. It should have been wider than that.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I'd challenge the two in bold. I'd put Canelo around 10th. Good fighter but for me he lost to (at least) Lara, Jacobs, Mayweather, Golovkin x2 and now Bivol. His record reads two defeats but that's 6 in my books. Obviously really good but no one would be swooning over him without the gift decisions.

Josh Taylor hasn't even fought 20 times as a pro and just had his face smashed in by a domestic level fighter. Hasn't fought Zepeda, Hooker etc. Apart from the Ramirez and Prograis (many people scored this a draw or the other way) fights, what has he done that other's in the division couldn't?

Taylor I really rate in terms of the physical tools
he has and the in ring intelligence he usually shows (last fight against Catterall notwithstanding).

What has he done in the division that others could not have done. Give Ramirez his only loss for one thing. Gave Prograis his only loss. Gave Kongsong his only loss, gave Baranchyk his first loss.

Taylor might only have 19 fights to his name and whilst he robbed Catterall ino, the rest of his fights have more than a few good fighters in there that he beat when others could not.

I don't like what happened with Catterall or how Taylor has responded to that result, but I also cannot look at Taylor box and Taylor fight and not think he is a high calibre boxer.


As for Ginger making number six on my list. It was done begrudgingly as I could not honestly say at the time I made the list that the four names I put after him are better P4Pers than him imo. He would drop on my list after last night's result though

[Doc_Piptorious]

Watch Canelo get the decision after eating jabs for 12 rounds.

Maybe not, but 115-113 is still generous...

The scoring was a disgrace. Did not see that win coming pre fight but Bivol was at least 8 rounds ahead for me. He dominated the fight and worked his jab all night long.

I had fully expected Ginger to win by a few clear rounds, but Bivol was excellent. Too quick, far too strong and tactically really good. Stuck to his game plan all fight long too and was able to tweak it any time Ginger tried to work a way inside.

[fidget]

Glad to see Canelo lose.

[Zapater]

A 115-113 UD against the Mexican house fighter on the Cinco De Mayo weekend card is akin to a shutout.

I've not seen the fight but the various reports I've read had Bivol winning by 6 rounds.

He outlanded him by 200 punches. I think it was around 700 to 500 at the end of the day. I know it's 12 short fights rather than a 36 minute fight we're judging but a deficit of 200 punches over 12 rounds is a hell of a lot any which way you swing it. You almost have to murder the man in any venue to get the nod.

Thought the Golovkin rematch should have taken place in Hamburg. I know Canelo technically fights on neutral ground but each bout has a million Mexicans baying for blood. He should go to Germany, Ukraine, Russia etc. to fight a live opponent.

[Zapater]

Taylor is at number 8 in the official rankings.

But in the P4P ratings that matter, the Jaco P P4P, Taylor is up to number four. He does drop to fifth if I do a male/female combined rankings though but fourth in that case still is a Taylor . I had it in my head the other day that K Taylor would be 3rd in my combined rankings, but had forgotten to add Loma.


Jaco P Official P4P Rankings

1. Crawford
2. Spence jr
3. Lomachenko
4. J. Taylor
5. Davis
6. Ginger Balls - cannot totally erase the fecker
7. Inoue
8. Estrada
9. Gonzalez
10. Uysk

Fury would make my top twenty atm, actually he gets into my top 15, but guys like Joshua and especially Wilder should be nowhere near a top 20 P4P list, not even one made by Helen Keller.

I'd challenge the two in bold. I'd put Canelo around 10th. Good fighter but for me he lost to (at least) Lara, Jacobs, Mayweather, Golovkin x2 and now Bivol. His record reads two defeats but that's 6 in my books. Obviously really good but no one would be swooning over him without the gift decisions.

Josh Taylor hasn't even fought 20 times as a pro and just had his face smashed in by a domestic level fighter. Hasn't fought Zepeda, Hooker etc. Apart from the Ramirez and Prograis (many people scored this a draw or the other way) fights, what has he done that other's in the division couldn't?

[spud_gun]

A 115-113 UD against the Mexican house fighter on the Cinco De Mayo weekend card is akin to a shutout.

I've not seen the fight but the various reports I've read had Bivol winning by 6 rounds.

[Zapater]

Watch Canelo get the decision after eating jabs for 12 rounds.

Maybe not, but 115-113 is still generous...

[Doc_Piptorious]

Tyson Fury not dropping his belts now and taking time to decide if he will retire (dropping the belts) or not retire (keeping the belts)


Frank Warren also came out and said Fury will decide if he is retiring or not and will not be rushed into giving up his belts.

It's gone from him retiring after Whyte to now looking to take as much time as is needed to decide and a comment about how he cannot be stripped of his belts until he fails to meet a madatory.

Sounds to me like he is going to hang onto those belts for a while and not formally reture.

Smarter thing to do imo is to say he has at least one fight left in him and that it will be against the winner of Usyk vs Joshua. Would keep his stock high that way and his name would then be getting attached to the hype for the Usyk/Joshua with little need for him to do anything and make it that bit more difficult for the winner to avoid him. Is what I would be doing in his shoes anyway. One press announcent to say I want the winner of that fight then go on holidays and let the boxing press and media do all the work.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I for one hope it happens.

If Usyk can comfortably make that weight without being drained then the only chance I give Ginger is that he lands a one in a million lucky shot.


Usyk was very very very good at cruiser and unless Ginger has been bombarding himself in Gamma rays and turning green he is not beating a fully fit Usyk at 201 lbs. He is not outboxing him, not out working him and not stopping him.

[Shaggy]

I'd love to see Usyk smash Canelo

[spud_gun]

Shades of Haye v Enzo

[Doc_Piptorious]

Canelo and his people again making noises about fighting Usyk at heavyweight if Usyk would agree to fighting at no heavier than 1 lb above the crusierweight limit.


The official release from reply from Usyk's camp to the offer to meet at 201 lbs?

Be our guest, Usyk will make cruiserweight for this one, but let Canelo concentrate on Bivol for now

[Doc_Piptorious]

Oh no doubt there's a ton of question marks over him then again he isn't the first fighter to exploit catchweight fights. His loss is against another modern day master of doing exactly that.

Purely in terms of variety of names i found it interesting. He beat the Kermit Cintron and Mosley in back to back fights 10 years ago. For some reason that tickled me. I liked Cintron back in the day.

Just taking his record in terms of names and ignoring everything else, you get the record of a world class fighter.

But the catch weight crap, the working of weigh ins to his favour (not allowing a naturally heavier man time to recover from dehydration or allowing more revocvery time when he is the naturally bigger man) are both things that rankle and dilute the wins that happened under those circumstances as they were stacked deck wins in my eyed and in the eyes of most boxing purists.

Then we have the fact he has failed drug tests and had drug tests delayed. That also taints wins as again he would have had an advantage, a chemically enhanced one in those cases, over the guys he was fighting.


So doubt then gets thrown over at least two thirds of his career as you have to start asking how many of the wins were ones that he was clean for or did not have some other angle being worked in his favour.

And it is a shame because from a technical pov the guy is good, really good, but the doubt is going to remain with regards to how much of his strength and endurance was earned naturally and how much did he have help with.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Agreed on Usyk. He's a wonderful technician.

r.e. Taylor. Not suggesting that you are underrating his run....just the public in general. He should be a superstar given what he's achieved. Sadly it's not the case.

Tyalor, poor performance and a lucky result in his last fight notwithstanding, is an excellent boxer who can also fight. He is a top level operator in my eyes and one we do not now just how good he may be. Maybe what he has done so far is as good as he gets, in which case he is a top tier boxer or a world class one if you prefer, but maybe he has another level in him that would make him an elite one. Needs to be beating a Crawford or Spence level fights to become elite in my eyes.

But he is close either way.