Boxing

[calvoboy]

For me the current heavyweight division is the worst I have seen in my lifetime, and we have champions and contenders alike that have built up records almost bereft of any genuine quality. There is not one current heavyweight that I look at and think he might have been a genuine contender in the 1990s/1980s/1970s etc., let alone a guy who I think would have been a top champ in any of those past eras.

What makes a division though? Historically it's been rivalries against closely matched opponents at the top that have got people interested, and from that perspective the heavyweight division is the most interesting it's been since Lewis retired and handed over to the Klitschkos. Who's the best? Fury, Wilder, or Joshua? Better than when it was "is this kid good enough to take Klitschko or Lewis past 6 rounds..." - even if in absolute terms it's nothing special yet.

[Doc_Piptorious]

What makes a division though? Historically it's been rivalries against closely matched opponents at the top that have got people interested, and from that perspective the heavyweight division is the most interesting it's been since Lewis retired and handed over to the Klitschkos. Who's the best? Fury, Wilder, or Joshua? Better than when it was "is this kid good enough to take Klitschko or Lewis past 6 rounds..." - even if in absolute terms it's nothing special yet.

Would argue that the quality of the fighters in the rivalries along with the overall quality of the top ten or top twenty is what makes the division.


As you mentioned Lennox Lewis...some of the rivalries during his time in the division would have seen the likes of Holyfield-Bowe, Holyfield - Lewis, Holyfield - Tyson, Lewis- Bowe ( a who is the best question that never got answered), Lewis- Klitschko, Tyson-Ruddock, and it was an era where the guys who were seen as second or third tier heavyweights included the likes of Morrison, Moorer, Golota, Grant, Tua, Rahman, McCall, Mercer, and Ibeabuchi (although he is maybe more a what may have been type fighter).


If we discount the Lewis- Klitschko fight from the above, then all the rest sit in the 1990s. No way does today's crop come even close to the depth of quality that was there in the 90s despite the 90s Heavyweight division often being one that gets maligned by fans.


We also had rivalries then that fired the imagination on a global scale. Not a chance in hell does any combination of Joshua, Wilder, or Fury have the same sort of appeal or allure as when we were wondering what would happen if Tyson met Holyfield, or if Bowe and Holyfield met again, or if Bowe met Lewis. They were potential fights that imo whetted the appetite of non boxing fans across the globe let alone boxing fans.

[rodo]

canelo alvarez suspended over a failed drug test

[red g]

I see Lucas Browne has been stealing all Ricky Hatton's Pies

[Zapater]

Great punch. Browne was awful though, ponderous performance. Did he even run in camp?

I'm glad to see that based on sports today. A cheating Aussie getting KO'd.

[Tee]

Best performance I have seen from Dillon Whyte, think he would give Wilder a few problems if he uses his jab like he did last night

[Zapater]

On May 12, one of my favourite active boxers, Jorge Linares fights Lomachenko. Should be a cracker. Linares is flawed and hasn't been at his best in his last couple of fights but he is the kind of guy that could take out a genius like Lomachenko. Heavy hands and a smooth style, only thing is, you can hit him and Lomachenko will hit you if you show him the openings. The size could make a difference though, Linares is a big lightweight who has dropped almost everyone he's been in there with. The way Lomachenko dispatched Walters should be encouraging but Linares at lightweight is a different ball game.

[calvoboy]

Would argue that the quality of the fighters in the rivalries along with the overall quality of the top ten or top twenty is what makes the division.

As you mentioned Lennox Lewis...some of the rivalries during his time in the division would have seen the likes of Holyfield-Bowe, Holyfield - Lewis, Holyfield - Tyson, Lewis- Bowe ( a who is the best question that never got answered), Lewis- Klitschko, Tyson-Ruddock, and it was an era where the guys who were seen as second or third tier heavyweights included the likes of Morrison, Moorer, Golota, Grant, Tua, Rahman, McCall, Mercer, and Ibeabuchi (although he is maybe more a what may have been type fighter).

If we discount the Lewis- Klitschko fight from the above, then all the rest sit in the 1990s. No way does today's crop come even close to the depth of quality that was there in the 90s despite the 90s Heavyweight division often being one that gets maligned by fans.

We also had rivalries then that fired the imagination on a global scale. Not a chance in hell does any combination of Joshua, Wilder, or Fury have the same sort of appeal or allure as when we were wondering what would happen if Tyson met Holyfield, or if Bowe and Holyfield met again, or if Bowe met Lewis. They were potential fights that imo whetted the appetite of non boxing fans across the globe let alone boxing fans.

No, I agree that it's nowhere near the 90s - I'm on about since Lewis retired and handed over to the Klitschkos. There wasn't much to get excited about in their 12 years of dominance (seemed longer) between Lewis/Vitali and Wlad/Fury (Peter? Haye?). At least now there are a few near-50/50 title contests to look forward to, even if the absolute quality is yet to be proven.

[Doc_Piptorious]

No, I agree that it's nowhere near the 90s - I'm on about since Lewis retired and handed over to the Klitschkos. There wasn't much to get excited about in their 12 years of dominance (seemed longer) between Lewis/Vitali and Wlad/Fury (Peter? Haye?). At least now there are a few near-50/50 title contests to look forward to, even if the absolute quality is yet to be proven.

I do agree that a lot of the contests are 50/50 in the division now, but not sure if they (speaking only for myself of course) are the sort of match ups that are exciting or imagination grabbing.

Would I watch Fury vs Joshua or Fury vs Wilder? Yes I would, but I would also expect them to be pretty poor spectacles, and not the sort of clashes that I would recall with fondness in years to come. They would also not be the sort of match ups that would have me counting down the days for.

Joshua vs Wilder is probably the only one I would look forward to, and that would be mainly down to the fact that it would have a strong chance of being a good fight to watch and also down to the questions marks that would be floating about before the bell rang.

Take those three names out of the mix and even though there are plenty of potential 50/50 bouts amongst the rest, the quality level pretty much falls off of a cliff and we enter a level that is not too far off of journeyman vs journeyman.


Think I am just a grouchy old fart who was spoiled through watching some fantastic fighters and match ups from the 1980s onwards and now is having to settle for lower standards. Having my footy team fall from title winning was bad enough the past few decades, but my joint favourite boxing division doing the same just caps it all off

[Zapater]

I'm not impressed by these heavyweights either. They're at a similar skill level to each other and have big personalities which creates some excitement and possibly competitive fights. But when you look at the quality fighters at present, P4P, I don't think that you can say too much positive about them. All of the best heavies at the moment are heavily flawed (and not in a good way like I what I was referring to in Linares above). So for me it doesn't compare favourably to other weight classes currently, nevermind the some of the golden eras of the division.

Having said that, despite there being great periods of heavyweights, I've always found it an underwhelming/overhyped division with much better and more exciting match ups and fighters coming from featherweight - light heavyweight divisions in general.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I'm not impressed by these heavyweights either. They're at a similar skill level to each other and have big personalities which creates some excitement and possibly competitive fights. But when you look at the quality fighters at present, P4P, I don't think that you can say too much positive about them. All of the best heavies at the moment are heavily flawed (and not in a good way like I what I was referring to in Linares above). So for me it doesn't compare favourably to other weight classes currently, nevermind the some of the golden eras of the division.

Having said that, despite there being great periods of heavyweights, I've always found it an underwhelming/overhyped division with much better and more exciting match ups and fighters coming from featherweight - light heavyweight divisions in general.

A big part of what made the heavyweight division a great division was it's relevance in sport and culture. Being heavyweight champion of the world meant a hell of a lot once upon a time, and being that champion meant you were seen as THE man across the globe.


Although that reverence is now long gone, I think for many that grew up with the last era or two where that reverence/legend still lingered, the division will always be the one held to probably unrealistic standards.

I suppose the last heavyweight that was seen as THE man, and who came the closest to being a true global icon, rather than just a big name within the sport, due to being the Heavyweight champ was Mike Tyson.

Before Tyson, maybe Larry Holmes had that level of recognition, and before that we had the 1970s which had a number of men whose name meant something to people who would never see them in the flesh or who might not even have seen them on tv.


Since Tyson we have had some world class heavyweight champions like Bowe, Holyfield, Lewis, and even Klitschko, but no one guy who you could say transcended the sport and who non boxing fans all over the globe would see as being the best of the best.


I do think that the reverence of days long gone by is also the reason why so much about the heavyweight division gets overhyped. It is the clinging to the coat tails of history in the hope of garnering revenue, gravitas, and relevence from the legacy created by greats that went before them.


Totally agree with you with regards to the lighter divisions. So much genuine quality will play out their entire careers in the lighter divisions without making any sort of impact on the mainstream public.

[labourRed]

Like a sad cunt I actually watched 5mins of the weight in. Joshua down to a very lean 17st 4lbs. Parker 16st.

[Saveloy]

How heavy was Joshua for his last fight?

[labourRed]

Far too heavy @ 18st 2lb. I actually got it wrong, Parker is 16st 12lbs so 6 pounds lighter than Joshua. But it looks a lot more.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Joshua looks in great shape. Being that bit lighter is going to help his speed, movement and overall stamina.


Still cannot see beyond an early stoppage win for Joshua or if Parker does really well then a stoppage win around rounds five to seven for Joshua.