Crap Jokes

[Alex]

I think if it went that way, I wouldn't delete the thread. As its probably more of a monument than anything else.

Calling people snowflakes and faries only sort of reinforces why I think the thread should be locked off now. Its divisive.

No decisions have been made, and weve not even talked about this in the Mod lounge as its good to get opinions before things are done.

But if something does happen, I think the title needs to change to reflect that fact that we dont want things that could be considered racist or homophobic etc in the jokes. I dont think anyone here is edgy enough to pull of a bit of South Park style satire.

[Alex]

Jesus listen to all the fairies telling us whats funny and whats not. This thread has all sorts of ****, mostly bad but some occasional gems and for that reason it should stay.
Good grief...

The reason for this is not about whats funny and whats not. Its about what actually offends people. I think like it or not, in 2019 people are a lot more switched on to what jokes do and how they impact people/groups. Bernard Manning and Jim Davidson Im sure were considered funny 30 years ago. But today they are a complete irrelevance to the majority of people.

Also for Clarity, Im not specifically talking about the joke that sparked this off the other day. Thats put to bed now.

[Yozza]

The reason for this is not about whats funny and whats not. Its about what actually offends people. I think like it or not, in 2019 people are a lot more switched on to what jokes do and how they impact people/groups. Bernard Manning and Jim Davidson Im sure were considered funny 30 years ago. But today they are a complete irrelevance to the majority of people.

Also for Clarity, Im not specifically talking about the joke that sparked this off the other day. Thats put to bed now.

Well put

[memzey]

Yes, he is the right person, he's the board admin, and it's a private forum with no right to free speech. Regardless he's asking for feedback.

Talking about snowflakes and Stalin has moved me from undecided to close this thing down and burn it in a fire.

Why? Do admin rights come with a monopoly on good judgement? Where does this path of censorship end? I didn’t call anybody a snowflake but pointed out the trend as is obvious in our society. I stand by my comment about the gulags and taking it out of context does nothing for the debate. The point is not that an admin will send users to Siberia. Did you really think that? Free speech is an almost miraculous privilege we have managed to inherit. Regardless of the technicalities we should approach any curtailment of it with utmost gravity and scepticism.

The reason for this is not about whats funny and whats not. Its about what actually offends people. I think like it or not, in 2019 people are a lot more switched on to what jokes do and how they impact people/groups. Bernard Manning and Jim Davidson Im sure were considered funny 30 years ago. But today they are a complete irrelevance to the majority of people.

Also for Clarity, Im not specifically talking about the joke that sparked this off the other day. Thats put to bed now.

What’s wrong with offending people? It is difficult to do anything in life that someone, somewhere would not find offensive. Where are you going to draw the line, delineating what is acceptably offensive from what just wont do? How well equipped are you to determine the appropriateness of that boundary? Will that line forever be fixed or will you have given yourself the job of always redefining it upon whatever, temporary values emerge? Are you happy to police it 24/7? After you have clamped down on unacceptable speech what next? Will there be certain sayings users will be forced to repeat otherwise they fall foul of being offensive by omission?

I can see the other side of the argument and appreciate the risks you may perceive as needing to be addressed, I really do. I also know that some of the questions I raise above are esoteric in respect to this actual issue but at one level or another they are all at play. Taking a pro-censorship interventionist stance has other risks associated to it which are far worse in my opinion. While no laws are being broken (i.e. no incitement to commit crime or hatred) I suggest leaving well enough alone and letting sensible posters moderate themselves is the best way forward. Of course, that decision does not rest with me. Good luck.

Just my 2c.

[Alex]

To me this isnt a free speech issue. Its an issue with the thread and the title of the thread emboldening people to post jokes on here, that probably on the rest of the forum they wouldn't say.

Currently im undecided, and it seems the community is pretty split (70/30ish) at the moment. The people that seem to love this thread, really love it.

Maybe a renaming of the thread would be a better way to tackle it. "Crap Jokes" or something? Bad taste to me implies that its almost free reign to post whatever you think is funny, ignoring the consequences and others who post on this community.

With regards to your question as to whats wrong with offending people. Id like to throw back at you this one. Why do you want to offend people?

[baitman]

Its 2019, every ****er is offended by something...

Some will laugh their tits and others will scream like greta thunberg, its the way of the world. Does that make it right... who's to say.

[Fivex]

Plenty of rocks to lift across the web though for the really borderline ‘jokes’ - might as well bring the NSFW thread back if we’re happy to have blatantly racist tropes in here imo.

[BillobShaisley]

To me this isnt a free speech issue. Its an issue with the thread and the title of the thread emboldening people to post jokes on here, that probably on the rest of the forum they wouldn't say.

Currently im undecided, and it seems the community is pretty split (70/30ish) at the moment. The people that seem to love this thread, really love it.

Maybe a renaming of the thread would be a better way to tackle it. "Crap Jokes" or something? Bad taste to me implies that its almost free reign to post whatever you think is funny, ignoring the consequences and others who post on this community.

With regards to your question as to whats wrong with offending people. Id like to throw back at you this one. Why do you want to offend people?

I think there is some risk with a thread like this but I quite like the idea of a thread, with an appropriate warning that you may well read stuff in here you find offensive or difficult. A place for those jokes that do make you wince on the basis of reader beware.

It is not a place for pure insults, racism or other prejudice and I guess ultimately it comes down to the Mods/Admins to decide where the line is and other posters to just accept that is a judgement call and you will probably not agree with every decision.

I didn't see the last one to cause a stir. Given what has been allowed in the past, I can assume it was simply insulting/denigrating without any saving grace. It's very hard to write a perfect set of rules for such a thread, but most of us know in our gut when "Poor Taste" moves into insult and prejudice.

Quite how we resolve to learn from these examples, when a post crosses the line it's handy to have the example to refer to so people can start to build a consensus based on precedent of where that line is.

For me, closing it down is overkill, but then I'm not the one having to deal with reported posts and the backlash of having to make a call and implement it. I think overall, the mods have trodden the path pretty skilfully so far (in this thread at least ) so if you can keep it up, do so.

[memzey]

To me this isnt a free speech issue. Its an issue with the thread and the title of the thread emboldening people to post jokes on here, that probably on the rest of the forum they wouldn't say.

Currently im undecided, and it seems the community is pretty split (70/30ish) at the moment. The people that seem to love this thread, really love it.

Maybe a renaming of the thread would be a better way to tackle it. "Crap Jokes" or something? Bad taste to me implies that its almost free reign to post whatever you think is funny, ignoring the consequences and others who post on this community.

With regards to your question as to whats wrong with offending people. Id like to throw back at you this one. Why do you want to offend people?

I think changing the name to something more descriptive would be an eminently more appropriate way forward than closing/deleting/censoring it (but that's just my opinion).
To answer your question; I do not want to offend nor do I set out to do so. We should note that we are now talking about the philosophy behind our opinions and have moved the topic off from closing down this thread on this website.

Philosophically I would say that to set out to cause offense for its own ends is a deplorable aspiration. I would also say that setting out with the objective to cause no offense is equally deplorable and carries with it a number of attendant problems for individuals and societies. Entirely aside from the fact that the truth is always a casualty of well-meaning censorship, a good enough reason alone to do away with the idea, it is as an expression of harmlessness that inoffensiveness becomes even more depressing. Harmlessness robs the individual of agency and the ability to change just about anything in the world – good or bad. One of the reasons for this is that change is always a destructive act as what was is replaced by something new, sometimes violently so. Harmlessness and complete inoffensiveness are impossible and undesirable outcomes to pursue in my opinion. I’m not alone in this thinking and as you might imagine, others disagree. From that point on you can see quite easily how the robust exchange of views, essential to formulate well rounded and understood positions, can easily be shut down by those that cry offence and those that yield to their demands. Which brings us back to where this all kicked off….

I appreciate that plotting a path through all of that is not easy – Good luck with it! I hope what I have written above makes sense and is received in the same good faith that it is shared in.

[dom9]

Given some of the essays in here, you'd think this was actually important.

And what's Greta Thunberg got to do with anything?

[Kenneth]

It's a football forum with millions of posts about football. It's clear that wasting words on unimportant topics is a good character fit for most of us.

[Norbs]

Funniest post on here for quite some time

[Alex]

Its 2019, every ****er is offended by something...

Some will laugh their tits and others will scream like greta thunberg, its the way of the world. Does that make it right... who's to say.

Ill address this first. As I see it a lot, all over the place.

If people are offended, why are you so annoyed by it? Also saying that its 2019 every one is offended by something is true, and has been for the last 1000 years. Its just that now people feel confident enough to speak up when something annoys them.

Just like you are when its suggested that you cannot post the jokes you want. Why are YOU so offended by that notion? See, cuts both ways.

I think there is some risk with a thread like this but I quite like the idea of a thread, with an appropriate warning that you may well read stuff in here you find offensive or difficult. A place for those jokes that do make you wince on the basis of reader beware.

It is not a place for pure insults, racism or other prejudice and I guess ultimately it comes down to the Mods/Admins to decide where the line is and other posters to just accept that is a judgement call and you will probably not agree with every decision.

I didn't see the last one to cause a stir. Given what has been allowed in the past, I can assume it was simply insulting/denigrating without any saving grace. It's very hard to write a perfect set of rules for such a thread, but most of us know in our gut when "Poor Taste" moves into insult and prejudice.

Quite how we resolve to learn from these examples, when a post crosses the line it's handy to have the example to refer to so people can start to build a consensus based on precedent of where that line is.

For me, closing it down is overkill, but then I'm not the one having to deal with reported posts and the backlash of having to make a call and implement it. I think overall, the mods have trodden the path pretty skilfully so far (in this thread at least ) so if you can keep it up, do so.

I think changing the name to something more descriptive would be an eminently more appropriate way forward than closing/deleting/censoring it (but that's just my opinion).
To answer your question; I do not want to offend nor do I set out to do so. We should note that we are now talking about the philosophy behind our opinions and have moved the topic off from closing down this thread on this website.

Philosophically I would say that to set out to cause offense for its own ends is a deplorable aspiration. I would also say that setting out with the objective to cause no offense is equally deplorable and carries with it a number of attendant problems for individuals and societies. Entirely aside from the fact that the truth is always a casualty of well-meaning censorship, a good enough reason alone to do away with the idea, it is as an expression of harmlessness that inoffensiveness becomes even more depressing. Harmlessness robs the individual of agency and the ability to change just about anything in the world – good or bad. One of the reasons for this is that change is always a destructive act as what was is replaced by something new, sometimes violently so. Harmlessness and complete inoffensiveness are impossible and undesirable outcomes to pursue in my opinion. I’m not alone in this thinking and as you might imagine, others disagree. From that point on you can see quite easily how the robust exchange of views, essential to formulate well rounded and understood positions, can easily be shut down by those that cry offence and those that yield to their demands. Which brings us back to where this all kicked off….

I appreciate that plotting a path through all of that is not easy – Good luck with it! I hope what I have written above makes sense and is received in the same good faith that it is shared in.

Both good posts here and I dont have much to add to them other than to appreciate the time to argue the case for this thread.

I think TBH Im leaning towards a renaming of this thread and a clearer guideline to what we expect to be acceptable here. (i.e nothing racist, homophobic etc) Those things are absolutely not acceptable on the rest of this site, so they shouldn't have an exception on this thread either.

But if there is more to be said, lets chat about it first.

[Alex]

Oh and Ill echo Dom here. I absolutely do not understand the obsession with Greta Thunberg. Its like being annoyed at David Attenborough. They say the same bloody stuff.

[fidget]

Maybe those offended by her don't like being told what to do by a young,female foreigner?