FA asks Liverpool to explain show of support for convicted criminal

[Elvoz]

i bet sky wouldnt of given it the coverage setanta did

ask them why they did

whats the difference

[Reece]

i though it wolud be as well for you or anyone to read the facts on this case then make your own mind up

the "protest" on monday was to bring the case more into the public eye for the judicial review which takes place this week

which it did

and maybe im wrong but those who are saying LFC should stay out of this are the OOTers

possibly feeling in the city is stronger

Well the protest wasn't asking for the case to be reviewed as such, more for Michael to be freed, which suggests they think he is innocent. As I said, I'm uneasy about it, but can see arguments on both sides as to whether we should be getting involved or not.

"and maybe im wrong but those who are saying LFC should stay out of this are the OOTers"

So what if they are? They are allowed an opinion.

[spud_gun]

There are organisations far better than Liverpool football club suited to dealing with issues such as this.

Amnesty International haven't had a lot to say on the issue.

[Darkon]

i though it wolud be as well for you or anyone to read the facts on this case then make your own mind up

the "protest" on monday was to bring the case more into the public eye for the judicial review which takes place this week

which it did

and maybe im wrong but those who are saying LFC should stay out of this are the OOTers

possibly feeling in the city is stronger

So please tell me where I find the facts of this case, if I am not a part of the high court in bulgaria???

The website is just one side of the story, and I have so far seen no evidence whatsoever that could convince me that a court of justice is blatently wrong.

It is fine that people get involved through webiste, org. etc. but I don't think it is our clubs role to get involved in criminal-cases.

[Neil Young]

There are organisations far better than Liverpool football club suited to dealing with issues such as this.

Amnesty International haven't had a lot to say on the issue.

I don't really think he counts as a prisoner of conscience and I'm not sure Amnesty would ever get involved in a miscarriage of justice (as it is alleged to be) in a purely criminal case.

Fair Trials Abroad may be more interested.

[Elvoz]

Well the protest wasn't asking for the case to be reviewed as such, more for Michael to be freed, which suggests they think he is innocent. As I said, I'm uneasy about it, but can see arguments on both sides as to whether we should be getting involved or not.

"and maybe im wrong but those who are saying LFC should stay out of this are the OOTers"

So what if they are? They are allowed an opinion.

read what i said after that ffs

feeling in the city is stronger

[spud_gun]

I don't really think he counts as a prisoner of conscience and I'm not sure Amnesty would ever get involved in a miscarriage of justice (as it is alleged to be) in a purely criminal case.

Fair Trials Abroad may be more interested.

Fair point Neil.

[Matt]

Trust the FA to find an excuse to issue a fine and boost their coffers.

[Elvoz]

So please tell me where I find the facts of this case, if I am not a part of the high court in bulgaria???

The website is just one side of the story, and I have so far seen no evidence whatsoever that could convince me that a court of justice is blatently wrong.

It is fine that people get involved through webiste, org. etc. but I don't think it is our clubs role to get involved in criminal-cases.

so knocking at a door - no answer so try the next one - oh someone is here lets arrest him

thenwhen the "alleged attacker" has a shorter hairstyle - lets shave micheals hair

petrocelli it aint pal

[dww]

That very much depends. Why does my support of our club throw weight behind something I do not want to support? I feel this should be dealt with outside of this environment.

I don't see why you are against a judicial review to be honest. I can see the point that 'Free Michael Shields' banners appear like a pre-judgement but I would suggest that most people believe that a fair trial is needed.

I see there is a separate issue with you feeling that people are campaigning in some sense in your name against your wishes but I'm not sure that it isn't just an unfortunate consequence of ever identifying yourself with a group. Sometimes the majority or a powerful minority will drive the things that the group are vocal about in a way you aren't happy with.

I think the club should aim to be part of the community both local and that of the supporters and it is a difficult job but I think something of the soul of the institution is kept by being willing to stand up for things like this.

But the 'Free Michael' banners are a bit over the top IMO. Yes there are some evidence that should be used in his court case but there is still a procedure to be undertaken (as in any case for that matter) for it to be proved really conclusive and worthy of being a very strong argument in his favour. By putting 'pressure' and asking the club to get involved doesn't do 'justice' to the judicial system in Bulgaria.

Now I know nothing and can't state for certain that Bulgaria's judicial system is flawed but it certainly doesn't help when people are questioning their institution. I am not too sure of reading newspaper articles and making a stance whether or not he isn't guilty; there are probably certain things that we aren't aware of. From what I've read it's not as conclusive as some people are saying.

The thing is that there would have been no appeal, no government effort and no hope of a judicial review - what you call procedure if there was no public protest in this case. There are questions that need to be answered regarding the case and while I take the point that overt 'Free ....' banners don't convey the nuances of any legal situation they do raise awareness much better than a wordy diatribe.

It probably isn't the best way for things to be dealt with but it isn't a perfect world and sometimes you have to use the tools available to you.

It is worth pointing out that due to the fact that they can't have an appeal (for whatever reason) the Bulgarian government have suggested that we are free to use the UK system in this case. I'm not sure that people should be so precious about people questioning their institutions it's not as if we haven't been guilty of miscarriages of justice in this country and in general I would suggest we have a good system. That doesn't mean it doesn't fail sometimes or that individuals within the system cannot be wrong.

[Neil Young]

I'm going to start a campaign to swap Michael Shields with fredo.

[Elvoz]

I don't see why you are against a judicial review to be honest. I can see the point that 'Free Michael Shields' banners appear like a pre-judgement but I would suggest that most people believe that a fair trial is needed.

I see there is a separate issue with you feeling that people are campaigning in some sense in your name against your wishes but I'm not sure that it isn't just an unfortunate consequence of ever identifying yourself with a group. Sometimes the majority or a powerful minority will drive the things that the group are vocal about in a way you aren't happy with.

I think the club should aim to be part of the community both local and that of the supporters and it is a difficult job but I think something of the soul of the institution is kept by being willing to stand up for things like this.



The thing is that there would have been no appeal, no government effort and no hope of a judicial review - what you call procedure if there was no public protest in this case. There are questions that need to be answered regarding the case and while I take the point that overt 'Free ....' banners don't convey the nuances of any legal situation they do raise awareness much better than a wordy diatribe.

It probably isn't the best way for things to be dealt with but it isn't a perfect world and sometimes you have to use the tools available to you.

It is worth pointing out that due to the fact that they can't have an appeal (for whatever reason) the Bulgarian government have suggested that we are free to use the UK system in this case. I'm not sure that people should be so precious about people questioning their institutions it's not as if we haven't been guilty of miscarriages of justice in this country and in general I would suggest we have a good system. That doesn't mean it doesn't fail sometimes or that individuals within the system cannot be wrong.

think your fighting a losing battle here mate

let him rot in jail and join the i,m alright jack brigade
i go to these ****in games it could of been me or a mate
locked up for something you didnt do - it happens and as you say dww you use the tolls you can to help

im very disappointed by some of the people and their attitudes - but then again im not a selfish ****er

[dww]

But the big question here for me is, what about all the evidence that speaks against him, and outweighs the things we know through the website in the court of Bulgaria?

If the judges in the high court ends up keeping the verdict, it must mean that they have solid evidence that places him as the one who commited the crime. We only know one side of the story, and we haven't seen any evidence ourselves.

I just find it very hard to go in and say he is innocent when/if a court in a free democratic country states otherwise after seeing ALL the evidence and statements.

If he gets convicted innocent it is of course deeply wrong, but even in that case I find it hard for LFC to get involved in the case and think it is a bit out of place getting involved in criminal-cases.

That is true but as far as I'm aware much of the evidence for his innocence simply wasn't given at court. Therefore it wasn't really out weighed.

I'll admit I would prefer a 'Justice for MIchael Shields' campaign but I really think people should have the right to vocally campaign on such issues even in the forum of a football match.

[Elvoz]

I'm going to start a campaign to swap Michael Shields with fredo.

or lock up his mrs to be for being stupid enough to want to be his other half

[Neil Young]

or lock up his mrs to be for being stupid enough to want to be his other half

Oh, I'm sure she's imaginary.