Joe Allen [Sold]

[Lecter]

Joe is always outstanding in a team that ticks along. If everyone does their job he's okay to be the silent player as (see Lec above) no one gives a ****. Just don't expect him to drag a game by the scruff of the neck, when the team needs a man to step into the breach when others aren't playing well. He just isn't that type of player.

He won't bulldoze a player over. He won't slide into a brave challenge. He won't belt one of from thirty yards and he won't split the defence with a pass from fifty yards away. But if others are there who can do that, he'll knit it all together quite nicely. Which is basically what most people call a nobody or a bit of a nothing player.

But if Yaya Toure had done what Allen did today, or City sacrificed another forward thinking player for a player like him today, City have a better chance of winning today. In fact, they'd have a better chance of winning the league with a Joe Allen in their team. He doesn't do anything particularly great or special, he just lets others take the glory and look good.

He'll never get his name chanted. He'll never be loved by all. But if he could manage to master the art of playing well when in and out of a side, he'd become a very important squad player for LFC at least.

Are you trying to say that when others are great Allens form improves or Allen is the cog that makes others brilliant

Because to me they are two very different things. I would agree that Allen looks better when the team performs well but for me he isnt the catalyst that makes us play better

I've watched Liverpool for well over 35 years now, I have seen some very underrated players during that time. Players that have been unsung heroes yet who without them the team hasnt quite functioned that well

The biggest one for me was Ronnie Whelan, he took dogs abuse from the fans back in the day but for me watching then he made those teams tick. Without him in the side they always played at a lower level. I use to scratch my head back then listening to the abuse he got because he invariably won more possession than any other player in a Liverpool shirt, when he got it he played it quickly and simply forward and his early passing often gave the attacking players additional time and space. Other fans use to say he was a nothing player, gave nothing

Yet I would not dare to describe Whelan as a nothing player he was absolutely essential to our game back then. The team quite literally didnt function as well when he was not in the side

I dont see that with Allen, you could take him out of that side now and it wouldnt have made a jot of difference to our level of performance.

Personally I thought City were appalling yesterday, they didnt close down, they gave acres of space and allowed our midfielders time on the ball. That said Allen did look far more attacking in his play than he has before

I am not too convinced either that Allen is a player City need

[Lecter]

Allen is fine when the is space in the game a there is a calm tempo...things tick along nicely then.Fernandinho never pressed and got the run around by Coutinho & Toure isn't exactly good off the ball, Silva & Nasri were anonymous.... was the perfect game to Allen.

Where he struggles is when play in a high tempo, game against opposition that press high, we've seen this a lot over the last few seasons since joining LFC. Anyways, I thought he was absolutely fantastic yesterday, i'm not a huge fan and never will be I do think but he was great yesterday and credit where it is due. I have no problem in having Allen in our squad.. not quite sure about being a regular in the first 11 though.

[captainfog]

I agree with Lec, Allen had a fantastic game yesterday, but he was under no pressure because the City midfield was non existence. In that regard it was the perfect game for him. If a side presses our midfield then he invariably struggles.

[Lecter]

I agree with Lec, Allen had a fantastic game yesterday, but he was under no pressure because the City midfield was non existence. In that regard it was the perfect game for him. If a side presses our midfield then he invariably struggles.

I think I've said it before that imo Allen is the type of player you bring on when you are cruising in a game and he sees out the last 20 or 30 minutes

[Maxiedge]

Pressing in midfield wasn't great by City but that's because they were pressing high. That was part of their game plan and it nearly worked in the first half as we were really feeling the pressure.

They're not mugs. They're a constant threat but we were excellent. The press and it seems some fans want to detract away from this. All I heard last night on MOTD was how poor Man City were.

It's bollix. We were fantastic

[Lecter]

We played well but City were the architects of their own downfall

I dont agree that they pressed high, their press was non-existent imo

They just didnt look arsed, they looked as though they could just turn up and win

We were great but City were terrible

[Maxiedge]

We played well but City were the architects of their own downfall

I dont agree that they pressed high, their press was non-existent imo

They just didnt look arsed, they looked as though they could just turn up and win

We were great but City were terrible

Disagree. They pressed high from the front first half really well and we were under the cosh for spells. Second half they lost their way. IMO, they weren't sure whether to press high as we were passing it well at the back and got stuck in no mans land.

I wouldn't say they were terrible. We put alot of energy into that performance and it was quite incredible all things considered.

[SB]

****ing hell, did your leg fall back off and got stuck up your arse?



He was magnificent today, really drove the play forward and the weight of his passing was excellent.

What's the collective noun for a group of people with a shared agenda?

Where I am there called ******s & no one really gives them the time of day. Just saying

[RedReet]

Pressing in midfield wasn't great by City but that's because they were pressing high. That was part of their game plan and it nearly worked in the first half as we were really feeling the pressure.

They're not mugs. They're a constant threat but we were excellent. The press and it seems some fans want to detract away from this. All I heard last night on MOTD was how poor Man City were.

It's bollix. We were fantastic

It seems that every time Allen plays well, I come on here and read that the opposition made him look good. Before this match people were predicting that we'd get overrun in midfield by City and at half time people were claiming that Yaya was running the show, yet by full time, we (and Allen) were made to look good because City were ****.

Apparently he can't handle a pressing team, but surely Southampton have proven to be one of the best in the league at that and in the last two matches against them with Allen we have an aggregate score of 5-0.

Burnley up next (‘Burnley were the best at pressing in last season's Championship. Working incessantly hard to close down the opposition, their tactics are built around winning back the ball quickly, then being penetrative once possession is turned over.’), so will be curious to see how he does against them.


Lucas getting injured should have been a massive blow to us, but fair play to Joe, he has stepped up and did a great job.

[SB]

It seems that every time Allen plays well, I come on here and read that the opposition made him look good. Before this match people were predicting that we'd get overrun in midfield by City and at half time people were claiming that Yaya was running the show, yet by full time, we (and Allen) were made to look good because City were ****.

Apparently he can't handle a pressing team, but surely Southampton have proven to be one of the best in the league at that and in the last two matches against them with Allen we have an aggregate score of 5-0.

Burnley up next (‘Burnley were the best at pressing in last season's Championship. Working incessantly hard to close down the opposition, their tactics are built around winning back the ball quickly, then being penetrative once possession is turned over.’), so will be curious to see how he does against them.


Lucas getting injured should have been a massive blow to us, but fair play to Joe, he has stepped up and did a great job.

your not suggesting anyone has an agenda now are you?

[DannyMan2006]

Are you trying to say that when others are great Allens form improves or Allen is the cog that makes others brilliant. Because to me they are two very different things. I would agree that Allen looks better when the team performs well but for me he isnt the catalyst that makes us play better

I dont see that with Allen, you could take him out of that side now and it wouldnt have made a jot of difference to our level of performance. I am not too convinced either that Allen is a player City need

I deleted the bit about Whelan as I don't really remember watching him play enough to comment. He's also from a different era and players strengths now to then need to be different IMO as it's an ever changing game at the very highest level. But I see the point you make.

Do I think Joe Allen is essential to this Liverpool team? Clearly not, anyone who says so would be a fool. But before I go on, I think the players this team rely on are becoming increasingly smaller. So in that case I'm hardly digging at Allen to say that. But for me yesterday Joe Allen did his job. And he did it well. We could argue whether or not City allowed him to play well, but regardless of that fact, he did.

If Joe Allen played like that every game then I guess we could have another discussion about his importance to the team. But to me a players importance is always dependant on his replacements as opposed to his level of ability. We have essentially five central midfielders - Henderson, Lucas, Allen, Gerrard & Can. If I was playing Barcelona tomorrow in the CL with a fully fit squad, the first two would start.

But there were some on here who far over egged the importance of Lucas to this team and predicted the worst when he got injured. Well since then Allen has come in and there has been no big drop in performance from the midfield. I don't think Allen is essential to our team. But I do think a player that contributes like he does is.

If I was boss at Man City I wouldn't be tabling a bid for Joe Allen, but I'd certainly be trying to sign a similar player to him. An intelligent player who sacrifices himself for the team and runs himself into the ground for the cause. I think for the games since he's come back he's matched, and in most cases exceeded, the miles clocked up by Henderson in game. If you take into account Henderson is box to box whilst Allen generally stays back, it shows you the amount of ground he covers at the back, plugging up gaps and pressing the opposition.

Anyway, whilst we can argue all day over whether or not he can become a key component, I think maybe what we can all agree on is that we wouldn't sell him. He has shown he can do a job and you need as many players as you can in the squad who can perform their role well within the team.

Finally, I think it's getting to the point where I will say it was £15m well spent taking into account current market prices. I'm holding off a little as I need to see him keep this level up. He's shown he can hit form in the past (back end of last season) but if he can do it again this year in the run in I'll be convinced. A player in his role needs to be consistent and he's not quite there yet.

[danperkins]

Very fair assessment of Allen.

As mentioned, he is one of those players who needs a run of games to build momentum. If he isn't starting, can he be relied upon to come in and do a job when we're rotating?

He's building up form at the moment because he's playing, but when everyone is fit, and he's occasionally playing, can he perform to a good enough level to warrant a place in the squad? Or do we need a player who we know what to expect from all the time?

he does seem like one of those players that takes a run of games to build form & I suppose that's fair enough.

If you ask me who I would prefer between him & Lucas both on form...Lucas every time. For a few reasons,

1. Lucas is great foil for Henderson's natural game. When Hendo was playing beside Gerrard he couldn't get forward, constant babysitting job and stifling his best attributes. Left us light going forward & pressing was non existent as we where sitting too deep. Playing beside Lucas it seems Hendo isn't more confident of leaving Lucas by himself and can push forward and make those lung busting runs & get into the box. With his attributes and playing his natural game IMO he should be getting up to 10 goals per season.

2. Lucas is more of a physical presence & in a high tempo game even though he lacks pace.... his reading of the game & the way he closes out spaces is brilliant. He is an out and out DM and that's what you get... whereas Allen can be a deep lying HM and was great yesterday in that relaxed tempo but he'll never be a DM. He'll keep you ticking along nicely & work hard but a DM role is not his game.

IMO I reckon Allen would struggle more playing likes of Burnley or Leicester as oppose to City or Arsenal. What i mean by that is teams that are work horses and have to press high and try push us back. Teams that have to be dogged and relentless off the ball as their not that great in possession. He really seems to find it hard to function with little space and high tempo...something that Lucas excels at. I think that's why we see the panicked Allen, side to side passes or passing it back... can be frustrating. Whereas yesterday he was going between the CB's receiving the ball & actually pushing forward and looking to be progressive. Was great to see actually.

3. Lucas is just a much better fit in front of our back 3. He's made for that system & great for our CB's.

Allen will have a few more games before Lucas comes back, would be great to see him put in similar performances in the next few games. I can be a moany cunt and criticise players but you have to give credit where it's due when they put in a good performance. Chap was excellent yesterday

[DannyMan2006]

It seems that every time Allen plays well, I come on here and read that the opposition made him look good. Before this match people were predicting that we'd get overrun in midfield by City and at half time people were claiming that Yaya was running the show, yet by full time, we (and Allen) were made to look good because City were ****.

Apparently he can't handle a pressing team, but surely Southampton have proven to be one of the best in the league at that and in the last two matches against them with Allen we have an aggregate score of 5-0.

Burnley up next (‘Burnley were the best at pressing in last season's Championship. Working incessantly hard to close down the opposition, their tactics are built around winning back the ball quickly, then being penetrative once possession is turned over.’), so will be curious to see how he does against them.


Lucas getting injured should have been a massive blow to us, but fair play to Joe, he has stepped up and did a great job.

So'ton was a weird one. We scored really early and knowing they couldn't hit a barn door at present we sat back and gave them the space to play. We asked if they were good enough to break us down and once we settled, we kept them out. When you play like that it's frustrating as you don't like seeing your team under the cosh, but it worked perfectly. It was also horrible conditions weather wise and a few of our players got some serious abuse and struggled with it.

Burnley will be incredibly difficult. None more so than for Joe. He has run his socks off lately and whilst adrenaline might have got players through against City, Burnley will be a lower key game and another game in a streak where we've had little time to rest. He and Hendo (with his foot injury) will really have to dig in and fight it out with Burnley. He needs to perform, do the same against Blackburn and then finally a bit of a rest before the next game.

[SB]

I deleted the bit about Whelan as I don't really remember watching him play enough to comment. He's also from a different era and players strengths now to then need to be different IMO as it's an ever changing game at the very highest level. But I see the point you make.

Do I think Joe Allen is essential to this Liverpool team? Clearly not, anyone who says so would be a fool. But before I go on, I think the players this team rely on are becoming increasingly smaller. So in that case I'm hardly digging at Allen to say that. But for me yesterday Joe Allen did his job. And he did it well. We could argue whether or not City allowed him to play well, but regardless of that fact, he did.

If Joe Allen played like that every game then I guess we could have another discussion about his importance to the team. But to me a players importance is always dependant on his replacements as opposed to his level of ability. We have essentially five central midfielders - Henderson, Lucas, Allen, Gerrard & Can. If I was playing Barcelona tomorrow in the CL with a fully fit squad, the first two would start.

But there were some on here who far over egged the importance of Lucas to this team and predicted the worst when he got injured. Well since then Allen has come in and there has been no big drop in performance from the midfield. I don't think Allen is essential to our team. But I do think a player that contributes like he does is.

If I was boss at Man City I wouldn't be tabling a bid for Joe Allen, but I'd certainly be trying to sign a similar player to him. An intelligent player who sacrifices himself for the team and runs himself into the ground for the cause. I think for the games since he's come back he's matched, and in most cases exceeded, the miles clocked up by Henderson in game. If you take into account Henderson is box to box whilst Allen generally stays back, it shows you the amount of ground he covers at the back, plugging up gaps and pressing the opposition.

Anyway, whilst we can argue all day over whether or not he can become a key component, I think maybe what we can all agree on is that we wouldn't sell him. He has shown he can do a job and you need as many players as you can in the squad who can perform their role well within the team.

Finally, I think it's getting to the point where I will say it was £15m well spent taking into account current market prices. I'm holding off a little as I need to see him keep this level up. He's shown he can hit form in the past (back end of last season) but if he can do it again this year in the run in I'll be convinced. A player in his role needs to be consistent and he's not quite there yet.

like others have said, he's not the sort of player that gets rave reviews but he does his job well. And every team needs that type of player to release others to do there jobs.

[Kenneth]

Yeah, but he doesn't do his job well that often, he's been ****ing awful more often that he's been good.