Not liking the reports coming out from Athens

[Guest]

had a great kip les, its not worth arguing with someone who wasent there. like sean said earlier, some of these people wanna news of the world everything. let them crack on with it, it probably brings them that little bit closer to their pastors.

Now Mr. knows all, News of the World or not I think we're a little more educated that what you served yesterday.

[Revo]

i have no doubts you are more educated than me fredo, is that what you want to hear? how very smart you are? well hereyou go, fredo is dead smart

[disco]

Hope we don't have another day discussing this! There are two good articles in the times today re. **** organisation and aggressive policing, but also one by tony evans about the attitude and results of people on wednesday who bunked. It's not them who suffered.

[Revo]

so tony evans knows how many people got in on forged tickets does he?

[Pacman]

pacman i spent my day with the glove, trapsing the city and the stadium for est members without tickets. i had a ticket, yet i still give up my time to help others, most of whom i only met in person for the first time yesterday . yet you sit there and judge me cos i think its well on for a few fans to bunk into any match, not just this one. your the ****ing tit and id like nothing better to tell you that to your face, you ****

Ahhhh poor Revo had his feelings hurt

[Revo]

Ahhhh poor Revo had his feelings hurt

hahahaha payback is some bitch huh

[Guest]

Revo, let's bury the hatchet on that one as arguing with fellow fans makes me sick and it's not worth it mate.

[Pacman]

hahahaha payback is some bitch huh

[TheStig]

George Gillett joined them, what was that plaque he was carrying? Is that what the losing finalists are given?

Yeah.

[bazza76]

Uefa needs to buck its ideas up, not pass the buck

Uefa needs to buck its ideas up, not pass the buck


One Liverpool fan gives an eyewitness account of the chaos outside the Olympic Stadium in Athens on Wednesday night

Gregg Roughley
Friday May 25, 2007
Guardian Unlimited

Syntagma Square in Athens was awash with red in the hours preceding this year's Champions League final, mirroring the colour and pride that was similarly in evidence in Taksim Square prior to the 2005 final in Istanbul. But the mood wasn't a patch on the carnival atmosphere in Turkey. You only had to look at the eyes of fans to sense their tension. A tension that wasn't born of Kaka's menacing runs or Gennaro Gattuso's fist-pumping aggression, but a worry of spending £1,000 to come all the way to Greece and not make it into the match for the fear of being sold a forged ticket or being relieved of your genuine final ticket by some desperate chancer in a snatch-and-run.

Article continues
As it transpired, it didn't seem to matter whether you had a forged ticket or a genuine one. The behaviour of some Liverpool fans was certainly not beyond reproach, but they were given the opportunity by the inept Greek authorities and woefully ill-equipped stadium facilities deemed suitable by Uefa.

Upon arriving at the Metro station outside the ground, fans faced a cordon of riot police dressed as though they were expecting a war. As we shuffled up to them we were asked to show our tickets before we could progress. The fact that this cordon was just yards from the Metro exit caused huge congestion and mass panic among the hordes of fans making their way off the trains. What made this even more ridiculous was the fact that the eyes of the Greek police didn't even cross the tickets. They seemed more interested in eyeballing fans to judge how aggressively they were acting before letting them pass. This was the first opportunity for the many ticketless fans who made it into the stadium to flash forgeries in the faces of police and stewards before progressing with ease.

The holding area we then entered was the so-called 'fanzone' where there was no sign of fan- themed events taking place: no music, no drink (alcoholic or soft) and nothing remotely fun. This area was more intimidating than any other, as frantic supporters who had made it through without a ticket considered how best to get through the next cordon. Some Liverpool fans, inevitably, snatched tickets off those who were using the area to tout for obscene prices, while others decided to get up to the ground early as the crush of ticketless fans behind them in the Metro station was growing ever larger and increasing the tension. We were greeted with a similar cordon as we moved from the fanzone towards the ground. And as it became apparent that one gate wasn't going to be anywhere near big enough to enter stage three of the staggered entrance procedure to the ground, a riot police officer smashed the lock on a fence to relieve the crush and allow entry to anybody who was in the fanzone without so much as a glance at any tickets.

As we finally approached the ground I was asked by supporters around me whether that was the last pre-entry check. "Do you reckon we're through?" said one. "I've got a blag ticket and they haven't even checked." Many others could be overheard having similar conversations.

Before the final check, we were told to put our tickets above our heads before being herded like cattle towards the stewards' final checking zone. "This is just as bad as going to watch a match in Vietnam," said a friend of mine who had been to a few matches out there last year. Once more, many fans held up forged tickets that weren't checked.

At the final checkpoint a steward quickly flashed an ultra-violet stick over the ticket. There was no turnstile and I doubt very much whether the ticket was checked properly. Even if it was shown to be fake, a five-yard dash into the ground with no barriers or turnstile to negotiate was an almost irresistible temptation for fans who had made it this far.

In the ground, about 300 seats behind the goal where Liverpool supporters were housed remained empty for the entire match. Of those fans who did show up to take their seats in the second half, many were suffering sickness after being sprayed with tear gas, while others sat disconsolately with their heads in their hands after being beaten by Greek police officers.

Unfortunately, after travelling away with Liverpool in Europe in the past, I can't say I was surprised. In Greece, Uefa proved yet again that it cares little about the interests of supporter safety by knowingly creating such a panicked climate prior to the match. The 6,000 seats that were made redundant by increased-size advertising hoardings at the ground alone would have eradicated many of the problems caused by fans who had entered with forged tickets. And if a few thousand had been shaved from the ridiculous number of tickets (23,000) given to the Uefa family, the pre-match atmosphere and process of getting into the ground would have felt much safer.

Uefa created the situation through its greed and inability to stage a football match to the high standards to which we have become accustomed in Britain. Many ticketless Liverpool fans travelled to Cardiff for last year's FA Cup final after tickets had been stolen prior to the match, but the high standard of planning and organization by police and stewards ensured that the day passed over without any major problems.

Uefa needs to buck its ideas up, not pass the buck.

[Lecter]

Uefa washes its hands of ticket fiasco May 25 2007




by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo


WHEN it comes to washing your hands of responsibility, Pontius Pilate had nothing on Uefa.

European football's governing body was today busily covering its tracks after trouble broke out at Wednesday's Champions League final in Athens.

But their excuses just won't wash, not when the evidence against them is so compelling.

Critically, Uefa decided to hold the biggest and most important match in European football in a stadium which, by their own admission, was not built for such an occasion.

How they could select a venue with no turnstiles and few toilet facilities is beyond the comprehension of Liverpool and Milan fans, and the British authorities, whose advice was not heeded as it should have been.

On the flight back to the UK yesterday afternoon, members of Merseyside police's football unit, who had stood powerless as trouble flared outside the ground prior to kick-off, were keeping their counsel.

They were duty-bound not to speak out, but the bewilderment on their faces betrayed what they were thinking – it had been a shambles of almost criminal proportions.

From the moment the ticket allocations for the final were announced, there was scarcely a single Liverpool fan who did not anticipate problems in Athens.

The basic principles of supply and demand should have been the key determinant when it came to deciding how many tickets each finalists should receive.

But Uefa's commitment to the corporate ideal meant this was never likely to happen and 40,000 Liverpool fans were left scrambling to get their hands on only 17,000 tickets.

It was this, coupled with the poor stadium facilities and a police force notorious throughout Europe for its baton-wielding antics, which made the scenes which took place on the forecourt of the Olympic stadium pretty much inevitable.

Of course, those fans who gained entry into the ground using forged tickets at the expense of genuine ticket holders left locked outside must take their share of the blame.

But the harsh reality is forged tickets are nothing new at major football matches, particularly when the real thing is so difficult to get hold of, and it is extremely rare for police and security staff to fail to deal with them.

On Wednesday night the Greek police failed spectacularly.

You only had to take a look at the Liverpool end behind the goal to realise that. There were literally thousands more fans in that area than it was supposed to hold.

One seasoned observer at pitch-side said it looked like the old Anfield Kop, such was the seething mass of swaying humanity in a stand where people should have been sitting in comfort.

An estimated 45,000 Liverpool fans were in Athens and it was clear very early on that the vast majority would be travelling to the Olympic stadium whether they had a valid ticket or not.

For those without tickets, this meant defying police advice. But for many fans, past experiences at European finals in places like Istanbul has taught them that it is often easy to buy tickets from touts at the stadium, particularly as kick-off approaches.

Again, the root of this problem lies at Uefa's door.

The bulk of the tickets being sold by touts are for the neutral areas of the ground, meaning they are most likely to have been bought originally in the Uefa ballot months before the final.

Touts try to get their hands on as many tickets as they can in the knowledge they can fleece genuine supporters should a club with a huge international fan base, like Liverpool or Manchester United, reach the final.

In this respect, Uefa have created a touts charter.

How can a situation in which ordinary fans with genuine tickets are greeted by riot police armed with guns and batons be tolerated in a civilised society?

Those of us making our way into the ground felt like we were running the gauntlet.

Four checkpoints were set up, each manned by riot police. Fans were asked to present their tickets at each one in order to gain entry into the stadium, but at the first two checkpoints I showed only the back of my ticket and was waved through.

It was tempting to believe that any piece of blue card resembling a ticket would have been enough to get past.

There were security staff whose job it was to scan all tickets with an ultra violet light to root out forgeries. But this was easily avoided by simply walking down the middle of the gangway.

At the third checkpoint, Greek police created a bottleneck by parking a coach right in front of the access point, leading to safety fears as more and more fans arrived with nowhere to go.

Eventually, the process was speeded up and we managed to get through to the fourth and final checkpoint before entering the ground.

At this stage, there was an hour to go before kick-off and already the Liverpool end was jam-packed. Our immediate suspicions that the stand's capacity had been breached were confirmed when a Tannoy announcement was relayed to those outside that the stadium was full and they would not be allowed in.

The problem was many of those stuck outside had valid tickets.

When the fans refused to disperse a stand-off ensued which culminated in riot police wading in with batons before setting off tear gas which resulted in hundreds of people running for cover.

It is no surprise that Uefa are already pointing the finger squarely in the direction of ticketless Liverpool fans.

There is no doubt that they must take their share of the blame, but the lion's share must go to Uefa, who showed again that the needs of fans are nowhere near the top of its agenda.

The time for washing of hands is over – Uefa must face up to its own responsibilities once and for all.

[Lecter]

Your final warning May 25 2007




by Luke Traynor, Liverpool Echo


UEFA was today facing growing pressure for a total rethink on future European cup finals in the wake of the Athens fiasco.

Thousands of Reds fans returned from Greece with disturbing accounts of the farcical security arrangements for the Champions League final with AC Milan.

But many were also condemned for contributing to a potential disaster by buying forged tickets or storming into the ground without tickets at all.

Their actions left 2,000, who had legitimate tickets, trapped in a crush outside as police shut the gates.

Today the Hillsborough Family Support Group said the combination of factors in Athens could have sparked another tragedy.

Fans queuing to have their tickets checked were pushed against makeshift fences.

Some Reds had to lift temporary barriers to escape the crushing in echoes of the 1989 tragedy when 96 people lost their lives.

The group’s Phil Hammond said today: “I thought I was going to die. We were pushed up against fences while police were wielding their batons and shields.

“I couldn’t believe what I was seeing, and I’m never going to a major European final again.

“That could so easily have been another Hillsborough.”

Pressure is now mounting on Uefa to take a more realistic approach to the choice the stadia in future and the security arrangements.

The Olympic stadium, Athens, has no turnstyles, and the authorities relied on police and security staff to check tickets from cordons thrown around the ground.

The Foreign Office has demanded answers to the handling of the match, Merseyside chief constable Bernard Hogan Howe has ordered a full report from Athens team, and today sports minister Richard Caborn said he too wanted answers.

Reds fan Chris Moran, 37, from Allerton, said: “I had a legitimate ticket and there was a big crush at one of the cordons as police were telling us the stadium was full.

“My mates managed to get through, but I didn’t fancy the chaos, particularly with Hillsborough in my mind.”

Cab driver Peter Vint and his son Kieran, 11, from south Liverpool were also victims.

Mr Vint’s wife Marie said: “When they got to the ground the police were telling them the ground was full. When they complained that they had tickets they were pepper sprayed by police.”

Merseyside Euro MP Arlene McCarthy is lobbying the European Parliament for major changes to the ticketing of games.

She described the Athens debacle as “an entirely predictable and preventable situation.”

Ms McCarthy said: “A year ago, Uefa should have made sure that the Athens authorities were in a position to manage large crowds.

“But at the same time I condemn people without tickets who turned up and forced their way in.”

Dr Rogan Taylor, director of Liverpool university’s football industry group, believes English clubs and supporters must take the lead to avoid future fiascos.

Uefa came under fire for distributing a large number of final tickets to “corporate partners” rather than fans.

Dr Taylor said: “Clubs have pressed too hard to squeeze the maximum amount of money from sponsors. They have to instruct Uefa to do sponsorship deals which bring in less money and reduce the number of tickets to corporate businesses.

“Fans must also recognise that if you get in without a ticket by being smart, it maybe deprives a dad and daughter with tickets of their own.

On stadia he added: “Uefa has offered carrots to the less well-developed football nations, so if they make the effort to build new facilities, big games will be brought to them.

“It is OK to offer rewards, but Uefa must make sure the stadium is right. If it is not, then wait a year until it is.”

[email protected]

Ticketless fans wereat fault says Uefa

A UEFA official today blamed Liverpool fans without tickets for the nightmare scenes outside the Champions League final.

Uefa told the ECHO yesterday that it was waiting for the security officer’s report, but spokesman William Gaillard said: “It is the behaviour of Liverpool fans that was, in the end, responsible for the problems that took place before the game, during and after the game.

“Trying to go over the barriers to get into the stadium without tickets, for example, is not behaviour we can condone.

“It is easy to say this is not a suitable stadium. But Milan supporters did not face the same problems, they did not behave in the same way.

“I am sorry for what happened to fans who had regular tickets. But, there is a collective responsibility in terms of behaviour.

“The bulk were obviously honest people who got their tickets in the right way and observed the rules.

“Unfortunately, because a minority did not, they found themselves in a very uncomfortable position.”

[reddragon]

Hope we don't have another day discussing this! There are two good articles in the times today re. **** organisation and aggressive policing, but also one by tony evans about the attitude and results of people on wednesday who bunked. It's not them who suffered.

sorry mate but what is this place for?? Is it an LFC forum to discuss issues that affect LFC and fans?? If so, if we need more discussion then we'll have it - being on here yesterday helped me feel a whole lot better cos after spending a ****load of money to be treated like **** and get to see about 10 minutes of the game I was pretty pissed off when i got home

[disco]

sorry mate but what is this place for?? Is it an LFC forum to discuss issues that affect LFC and fans?? If so, if we need more discussion then we'll have it - being on here yesterday helped me feel a whole lot better cos after spending a ****load of money to be treated like **** and get to see about 10 minutes of the game I was pretty pissed off when i got home

Me too, and I agree, but it was quite heated yesterday so could have done without a repeat

I think we all have the best interests of club at heart, but on one issue in particular yesterday the forum was pretty split.

Was a good debate though, and my views (while still a bit different) certainly changed slightly once I had heard people's experiences and more info was coming out.

[Revo]

Me too, and I agree, but it was quite heated yesterday so could have done without a repeat

I think we all have the best interests of club at heart, but on one issue in particular yesterday the forum was pretty split.

Was a good debate though, and my views (while still a bit different) certainly changed slightly once I had heard people's experiences and more info was coming out.

does that mean i have your permission to bunk in at headingley tomorrow