Is Gerrard a footballing genius?

[Mike]

Because last season both Ronaldo + Stevie + Torres + Adebayor + Cesc accounted for more goals, you know those things which win games, than he did.

Ipso facto SG > Messi.

But would you pick Adebayor over Messi for your team overall?

[Craig_H]

Do you? Hmmm. Not sure. He's definitely more guilty of it in an England shirt.

I do think so, it's certainly the impression i get. The england thing is different, but my main reference is to Liverpool, so i dont take the england stuff into account.

I'll pay closer attention to Gerrard on saturday and see what kind of percentage of his passes are still hollywood balls which arent actually on.

I personally think they're quite rare nowadays, but i'll have a close look and report back

[Craig_H]

Because last season both Ronaldo + Stevie + Torres + Adebayor + Cesc accounted for more goals, you know those things which win games, than he did.

Ipso facto SG > Messi.

In the other thread, you're arguing that a goalkeeper wins matches.

Now, on this thread, you refer to goals as the things which WIN GAMES.

Which is it?

[Guest]

I'm 16 but that is not the point, Messi is a fantastic footballer and is also very mature for his age.

But what you are saying is that Gerrard is better than Messi not for football reasons, because he is more mature and older

No but he's certainly better than when he was 18 or 20. Messi will be much better in 4 years time IF he continues to progress. It's all about consistency also, not just ability.

It's too easy to tag someone a 'footballing genius' based on one or two flicks and great goals (Ronaldhino - where is he now? At 28 he's become an average player).

Zidane was a footballing freak / genius as certainly is Gerrard. Messi has all the potential in the world to be one very soon but I'll wait a tad longer before giving him this accolade.

[Craig_H]

But would you pick Adebayor over Messi for your team overall?

I think El Jefecito's argument changes according to which thread he's posting in and which debate he's taking part in

You'll basically never win with him because the goalposts just change whenever it suits. That's why i adopt a 'each to their own' policy, because some people change their own mind too often for you to have any hope of changing it

[Craig_H]

No but he's certainly better than when he was 18 or 20. Messi will be much better in 4 years time IF he continues to progress. It's all about consistency also, not just ability.

It's too easy to tag someone a 'footballing genius' based on one or two flicks and great goals (Ronaldhino - where is he now? At 28 he's become an average player).

Zidane was a footballing freak / genius as certainly is Gerrard. Messi has all the potential in the world to be one very soon but I'll wait a tad longer before giving him this accolade.

Ronaldinho is a footballing genius, even now. He's not average, he's not as good as at his peak, but average?

Just because someone might let themselves go a bit and lose motivation, it doesnt stop them being a genius.

Messi certainly is one.

[El Jefecito]

But would you pick Adebayor over Messi for your team overall?

You are cheating. You are really asking would I have Messi @ RM or Kuyt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mike]

Fredo, you are saying that Messi is a few years younger than Gerrard, and that is what makes him not as good?

With age you do get better i will admit, but i believe right now that Messi (23 i think) is better than SG (28) at the moment.

[Tee]

Some interesting discussions on here. I just think that there is no other player in the world that I would swap him for, and that tells me just how good a player he is.

Gerrard is the closest to a real life Roy of the Rovers. He has and will continue to grab hold of and win matches almost sigle handedly when all looks lost. I cannot think of any other player who has done this time and time again - well apart from maybe Maradona.

I disagree with the argument that he lacks intelligence - in fact I belive the opposite - his speed of thought and footballing intelligence is sometimes too superior to those team-mates around him.

As I said before he is he best player I have ever seen in a Liverpool shirt.

[Mike]

You are cheating. You are really asking would I have Messi @ RM or Kuyt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shhhhhh

[Craig_H]

Some interesting discussions on here. I just think that there is no other player in the world that I would swap him for, and that tells me just how good a player he is.

Gerrard is the closest to a real life Roy of the Rovers. He has and will continue to grab hold of and win matches almost sigle handedly when all looks lost. I cannot think of any other player who has done this time and time again - well apart from maybe Maradona.

I disagree with the argument that he lacks intelligence - in fact I belive the opposite - his speed of thought and footballing intelligence is sometimes too superior to those team-mates around him.

As I said before he is he best player I have ever seen in a Liverpool shirt.

[El Jefecito]

In the other thread, you're arguing that a goalkeeper wins matches.

Now, on this thread, you refer to goals as the things which WIN GAMES.

Which is it?

Mate are you ****ing that stupid that you think only one position is significant as far as winning matches is concerned??????????????????????

I give Mike some credit as he is only 16. WTF is your excuse for posting such ****?

[Mike]

Mate are you ****ing that stupid that you think only one position is significant as far as winning matches is concerned??????????????????????

I give Mike some credit as he is only 16. WTF is your excuse for posting such ****?

Oh so it is my age why you like me......

[Craig_H]

Mate are you ****ing that stupid that you think only one position is significant as far as winning matches is concerned??????????????????????

I give Mike some credit as he is only 16. WTF is your excuse for posting such ****?

20 question marks? That adds such emphasis to your point

I didnt say only one person is significant in winning matches, but you just said a few minutes ago that goals are what 'win you games'.

Which, i agree with. There is a difference in someone being significant to winning a match, and being a matchwinner. To me there is, anyway.

Goalkeepers, for the most part, dont score goals. Just highlighting an inconsistency in your argument. Have a good night dude.

[El Jefecito]

Oh so it is my age why you like me......

Yeah, I could have put that better