Will Rafa win the league with Liverpool?

[Skillz]

Football was very different back then. Sky was only the thing you see when you look up.

I know that. My main point was

What did Fergie win?

[Skillz]

Bit silly there mate, the media was a completely different animal in those days, compared to now.

As for fergie and FA Cups/Champions Leagues...no he didnt, but he's gone on to become the 2nd most successful manager ever.

Which bit is the more relevant to focus on do you think? I'll give you a clue, it's a no brainer.

My point is valid. Rafa's 1st 3 years at Anfield have been far superior to Alex's at Manu. I could easily argue how much stronger our squad is and it's value to when Rafa started. That he was held back by "hangers on" of which we had a lot due to ridiculous wages. Yet we have a squad that is getting very close to the real thing.

[Darth Marty]

My point is valid. Rafa's 1st 3 years at Anfield have been far superior to Alex's at Manu. I could easily argue how much stronger our squad is and it's value to when Rafa started. That he was held back by "hangers on" of which we had a lot due to ridiculous wages. Yet we have a squad that is getting very close to the real thing.

I agree. And I think that Rafa should be given a 7 year contract which makes it nigh on impossible to get sacked. Then see where we are in 7 years.
Bet we would have won the league amongst other things.
Continuity is all important.

[Skillz]

I agree. And I think that Rafa should be given a 7 year contract which makes it nigh on impossible to get sacked. Then see where we are in 7 years.
Bet we would have won the league amongst other things.
Continuity is all important.

Interesting way to go. Not one i agree with. I would Rafa a new 4 year term though.

[Frank Leroux]

Everyone who doubts Rafa only need to take a look at his record.

Two La Liga championships with an average Valencia team.

One CL win and another CL final with an average Liverpool team.

I still can't understand how we could win the 04-05 CL with the "****" team we had.

Rafa is a winner and can get the best out of a team when it really matters.

I doubt Benitez as I fundamentally think his 'way of playing' for want of a better phrase won't win any team the PL, never mind ourselves.

His record in Spain and Europe go hand-in-hand, tactically astute, a good constructor of game-plans.

In Ingerland, (assuming a reasonable squad) you simply don't need to be that cerebral, that intellectual about 90% of the games...Arsenal, Utd, Chelsea apart.

Can you now understand why I don't believe he will win us the title I want above any other?

[Dhav]

I think you're firmly reeled in mate.

Firstly, the criminals point is so bizarre, that i'm not even sure if you were messing around by making it. I've tried to find some kind of relevance, but i'm at a loss.

As for being media friendly, i doubt ferguson could be described as that. But he was your example as a comparison to use. I stand by the point that Fergie's perceived lack of press criticism is largely due to the fact that he's proven without a shadow of a doubt that he knows what he's doing and his record is unquestionable.

You said Fergie has earnt the right not to be criticised because he has won so many leagues. I am saying that the fact that he has won the league in the past does not mean his decisions now are any more right or wrong than Rafa's or deserving of less criticism or more praise as a result - in the same way that you don't judge a suspect's guilt on the basis of his previous criminal record.

You say Fergie's record is beyond question/criticism, well Rafa's European record is impeccable - superior to Fergie's and spread over a much shorter time frame. Does that not deserve respect? He's also got us our highest points tally in 15 years.

I dont believe the press give Fergie a sweet deal because of his record, I think they do it because of his stature - he is one of the biggest characters in the game and if he stopped talking to them it would probably be disastrous for them, ie he has them running scared. Redknapp and O'Neill seem to be rarely criticised in the press, and O'Neill had a disastrous 2nd half of last season, while Redknapp got relegated with Southampton.

The media play favourites, and Rafa is an easy target for them. It's not because his record is inferior to anyone else or because his decisions are worthy of any more criticism than anyone else.

[Dhav]

I doubt Benitez as I fundamentally think his 'way of playing' for want of a better phrase won't win any team the PL, never mind ourselves.

His record in Spain and Europe go hand-in-hand, tactically astute, a good constructor of game-plans.

In Ingerland, (assuming a reasonable squad) you simply don't need to be that cerebral, that intellectual about 90% of the games...Arsenal, Utd, Chelsea apart.

Can you now understand why I don't believe he will win us the title I want above any other?

I tend to agree with the bit in bold, although I'm not really sure why. There is no reason in my mind why more sophisticated tactics/style of play compared to the norm shouldn't be successful in specific games, but for some reason it doesn't seem to be that way, not for us anyway.

[tomasjj]

I tend to agree with the bit in bold, although I'm not really sure why. There is no reason in my mind why more sophisticated tactics/style of play compared to the norm shouldn't be successful in specific games, but for some reason it doesn't seem to be that way, not for us anyway.

I agree with the original statement too. If I dare to have a guess it is down to the higher tempo here, and thus, that there would be more elements of chance. Also, players would have a harder time carrying out the instructions to the same extent as in a more pedestrian league, and they would get pulled out of position much more down to these elements of chance.

[Craig_H]

My point is valid. Rafa's 1st 3 years at Anfield have been far superior to Alex's at Manu. I could easily argue how much stronger our squad is and it's value to when Rafa started. That he was held back by "hangers on" of which we had a lot due to ridiculous wages. Yet we have a squad that is getting very close to the real thing.

It's totally different, Fergie's predecessors hadnt spent the equivalent of the best part of £200m and it was a totally different era.

[Frank Leroux]

I agree with the original statement too. If I dare to have a guess it is down to the higher tempo here, and thus, that there would be more elements of chance. Also, players would have a harder time carrying out the instructions to the same extent as in a more pedestrian league, and they would get pulled out of position much more down to these elements of chance.

I agree with this, the 'English' game is all tempo - the better teams will, in general, come out on top with their higher skill levels. Maintenance of possession has never been that strong an element of the game in Britain so the usual down side to a high-tempo game - i.e. losing possession - isn't that big a deal as the opposition will invariably give it back to you quickly.

The European game is much more akin to chess. Generally a better level of player, playing a more possession-based game with tactics coming out of their ears because of this.

Benitez has proved himself a master at the European game. Someday he will prove himself to be similarly successful at International level (he just might bring Spain their long-awaited success in the WC...).

But I don't think he can/wants to 'dumb-down' his football to the level which has, essentially, won almost every PL since it started...

[AFII]

I doubt Benitez as I fundamentally think his 'way of playing' for want of a better phrase won't win any team the PL, never mind ourselves.

His record in Spain and Europe go hand-in-hand, tactically astute, a good constructor of game-plans.

In Ingerland, (assuming a reasonable squad) you simply don't need to be that cerebral, that intellectual about 90% of the games...Arsenal, Utd, Chelsea apart.

Can you now understand why I don't believe he will win us the title I want above any other?

No.

We have out played every team once or twice and I mean totally out played them. We could have won against Man U for example last season at Anfield with 4,5-0 easily but we didn't have the strikers to do it.

Rafa have showed in the PL that he can deliver against every team.

[Frank Leroux]

No.

We have out played every time once or twice and I mean totally out played them. We could have won against Man U for example last season at Anfield with 4,5-0 easily but we didn't have the strikers to do it.

Rafa have showed in the PL that he can deliver against every team.

..which reinforces the generally accepted belief that, in one-off games, he is excellent.

What is in question is his ability to maintain a momentum gained by such results and to resist his desire to manipulate the team when it, to me/us, just doesn't merit it.

[Crazy-Horse]

Well?

Did this on TLW and the majority said Yes if he changes some things, many said No. I think he can but only if he ditches rotation.

45% vote for "Yes if he changes some things."


Isn't that called 'Rotation'

YNWA

[AFII]

..which reinforces the generally accepted belief that, in one-off games, he is excellent.

What is in question is his ability to maintain a momentum gained by such results and to resist his desire to manipulate the team when it, to me/us, just doesn't merit it.

We won't know that until Rafa have been backed in more than one transfer window.

I can't complain at all to the signings he made in the last window and that was the first time he could go after his first choice targets.

[Frank Leroux]

We won't know that until Rafa have been backed in more than one transfer window.

I can't complain at all to the signings he made in the last window and that was the first time he could go after his first choice targets.

I can't complain either. But playing Babel and Benayoun wide is a mistake...playing neither of them (okay, particularly Benayoun) regularly is another mistake. I feel even with more backing in the coming window(s) he would buy well but use badly.

I guess he could find himself in a Chelsea-like scenario where he has practically two elevens to pick from and the quality all over the park would cushion/accomodate his philosophy....

No, we won't know anything until certain scenarios are encountered, but we each have our views